George-
I am curious about your conclusions concerning those "things" referred to in
the passages in Colossians and Ephesians. As you noted, the articles
rendered appear to be neuter. Are we to assume that they are living? If
so, those who are in heaven are probably angels, which would seem to
validate your point, or, possibly, just resurrected humans. (Matthew
22:30). On the other hand, on earth, the only neuter living beings seem to
be overzealous Judaizers (Gal 5:12; Phil 3:2), Ethiopian treasurers (Acts
8:27) , and really dedicated Christians (Matt 19:12...ouch!) Of course, in
the animal kingdom there are several neuter species, but none seem to figure
prominently in Scripture.
But as too whether such animals, or their sexual counterparts, sin, I would
vote no.
And the reason why should be obvious, especially to evolutionists...to sin
is to transgress the Law. And animals, as did we, have but one Law.
However, unlike us, theirs was, and is, the Law of Self-Preservation, either
of individual or species. In Romans 8, this serving of self and species is
called "vanity" or "futility" in comparison to Mans ultimate duty to love,
and serve, others, even our enemies, and God. In fact, this is undoubtedly
the "carnal nature" that we are warned so much to be against.
An animal does not, knowingly, violate this Law, because it instinctively
knows that such a "sin" leads to death. Thus, this is the "slavery to
corruption" that is mentioned. And, by analogy, we, by our carnal nature,
fear death...until we realize, and accept, that Christ has conquered death.
We have this hope within us to be ultimately freed from all corruption, but
I do not know what Utopia animals dream of.
(I cannot believe I am writing this...just a few short years ago I was
explaining to my daughter that "All Dogs Go to Heaven" was just an
unscriptural title to a video...)
PS, thanks to everyone in not quoting Eccl 3:19-21.
Norm Woodward
Warner Robins Georgia
-----Original Message-----
From: george murphy [mailto:gmurphy@raex.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 5:34 PM
To: Walter Hicks
Cc: Woodward Norm Civ WRALC/TIEDM; Asa@Calvin. Edu
Subject: Re: Do animals ever "sin" (was something else)
Walter Hicks wrote:
> Woodward Norm Civ WRALC/TIEDM wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the response.
> >
> > Perhaps as expected, I do not agree with much of your conclusions, but
you
> > have opened my mind on some concepts which I did not think about
before...
> >
> > In that passage in Romans, it does seem to indicate that all creatures
are
> > yearning for the time that we may reunite in that eternal Paradise on
High,
> > just as we were together in that earthly Paradise long ago.
>
> In several recent posts, the theory that animals have souls has been
> stated. No definition of a souls was posted -- that I noticed.
>
> That Jesus was the Savior for man has not been brought into doubt by ASA
> mwmbers (so far) ---- but what about the animals? If they really have
> souls (as many think), then can they sin? Do they have a Savior also?
> (Do Ducks have a "Duck Savior"?) Where all does this leave
> "conventional" Christianity?
>
> I wonder
Almost by definition, animals that are not moral agents are not able
to
sin. But sin isn't the only things creatures may need to be saved from.
Human
beings need to be saved (either temporarily or in an ultimate sense) from
death,
suffering, meaninglessness, & other things. For the Greeks, including
hellenistic Christians, "corruption" was the major threat, & that concern
seems
to be in the background of Paul's language in Rom.8:21 about creation being
"set
free from its bondage to decay."
God is the only savior in the ultimate sense, as Is.43:11 says. But
this
isn't just a matter of citing a Bible verse. If there were any ultimate
savior
other than God then we would owe our lives in a fundamental sense to someone
other than God and there would be a breakdown of the 1st Commandment.
That's one
of the primary reasons why the divinity of Christ is an essential teaching.
& Col.1:15-20, as I've pointed out, certainly says that the
reconciliation of "all things" to God takes place through the cross of
Christ.
Shalom,
George
George L. Murphy
http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
"The Science-Theology Interface"
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