In a message dated 11/26/01 9:09:43 AM, gmurphy@raex.com writes:
<< RDehaan237@aol.com wrote:
> Thanks for your response. My questions now become, what is the relationship
> between "God acting in cooperation" and "genuine secondary causes"? How
does
> God cooperate? What does God cooperate with? Are the genuine secondary
> causes ever affected by God's cooperation? If so, how? If not, then isn't
> God's cooperation an empty hypothetical construct?>>
George responded:
<First, I should say that this concept of divine action isn't my
invention
but is a very traditional one. (Barbour labels it "neo-Thomist".) Formally,
God
is the "first cause" who acts in the world through created agents as "second
causes". The model or metaphor for this is that God is the craftsperson who
uses
"tools" or "instruments" to accomplish certain tasks. Of course all
metaphors or
models are limited, and this one doesn't take into account the idea that God
is
the one who brings his instruments into being and preserves them.
Where my approach differs from many traditional ones is by
emphasizing two
other ideas:
(1) God normally limits his actions to the capacities of creatures
(kenosis), and
(2) God's action is seen by faith, not scientific observation. I.e., this is
a
theological concept, not one of natural science, & should not be expected to
new
insights to physics or biology as scientific theories.
"Cooperation" means literally that God "works with" creatures/natural
entities & processes.
Everything is done by both God and a creature. When you write with a pen,
both
you and the pen can be said to act. Your action of course "affects" the pen
- if
you didn't pick it up it would just sit there and not write anything.
"Cooperation" is a better term for this than the other word that is
sometimes used, "concurrence". The latter suggests that God and creatures
simply
accompany one another as they each do their separate things.
Of course you could convert the pen into some instrument that would be
capable of a wider range of tasks, but you would do that by acting on the pen
with
some other instruments. >>
George:
Let me comment on a couple things you wrote in the above:
"God is the one who brings his instruments into being and preserves them."
I'm pretty sure you don't mean by this that God brings new instruments into
being at any time other than in the initial creation of the universe. But I
do. At transition points between developmental stages, in my view, God did
just that. God brought new instruments to bring about new phenomena -- e.g.,
cellular life. That is, I don't believe that the laws of physics and
chemistry (God's instruments) although sufficient to account for the
prebiotic universe, can account for the phenomenon of cellular life. We've
gone over that before. Here's one place where we differ.
I am gratified that you used the term "preserves". That seems to me an
essential element in providence which you have neglected so far in your
emphasis on providence as cooperation. That answers a question I asked
later, "What else does God do besides cooperating with his creation?" God is
also upholding, sustaining, preserving secondary causes. That may not be
what you mean, but it is what I do.
A comment on "cooperation". Sometimes you write as if God and
"creatures/natural entities & processes" are equal partners in this
cooperation. I don't think that is the case. It is more accurate to say
that the creaturely processes cooperate with God, just as the pen cooperates
and is dependent on the arm that does the writing. The arm is free to
discard the pen and use some other means, but the pen is not free to discard
the arm. Would you agree?
When you say, "God normally limits his actions to the capacities of
creatures (kenosis)," you allow some wiggle room for God to act in ways we
do not and maybe can never understand that may be normal yet in addition to
the capacities of creature. I am uncomfortable when we lay hard and fast
limitations on what God can do and has done.
Thanks for the exchange. You may conclude it if you wish.
Best wishes,
Bob
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