Re: Staged developmental creation.

From: RDehaan237@aol.com
Date: Wed Nov 14 2001 - 06:28:16 EST

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    In a message dated 11/10/01 10:06:48 AM, hvantill@novagate.com writes:

    << OK, thanks for the effort. Let's follow up on that. Suppose that God were
    to
    add a "new formational capability" to the Creation today at 1 p.m. Would
    atoms, or molecules, or cells then be able to do things after 1 p.m. that
    they were not able to do before? Would the observable/measurable properties
    or behavior patterns of atoms, molecules, or cells be observed to change at
    1 p.m.? Is this how new, more complex structures/systems arise? >>

    Howard,

    In your question you used an example that is so far afield from my view of
    how God works that I can hardly respond to it. The idea of God adding new
    informational capability to the creation at "1 pm today" *for no apparent
    reason* does not fit in any way into my way of thinking. It makes me wonder
    if you really understand or accept what I wrote about staged development of
    creation. God does not act capriciously. As I wrote before, his adding new
    informational capability occurred during transitions between stages of
    creational development. Doing so is part of the plan of creation, not a spur
    of the moment decision, or an emergency response to some failure or
    inadequacy of creation.

     So let's take your 1-PM-today scenario (give or take a few millions of
    years) and place it sometime between the cooling of the earth and the
    appearance of the first living cell, roughly 3.8 billion years ago. Then the
    answer to your question is, yes, atoms, or molecules, or cells would then be
    able to do things that they were not able to do before. C, H, O, N atoms
    along with others, were able to do something new, i.e., become patterned into
    living biological cells and do the work of living cells. This means they
    were able to form a semi-permeable membrane around cell fluid (perhaps
    Cambrian sea water), maintain the right pressure in the fluid to keep the
    membrane from collapsing, build the internal skeleton of the cell,
    manufacture food using various sources of energy. Formed into DNA and RNA
    molecules they were able to synthesize proteins, specialized for various
    tasks, transport them to exact addresses in other parts of the cell, and
    remove waste products, repair damage--a veritable factory. The cell was able
    to reproduce by dividing precisely into two identical daughter cells (an
    amazing feat), capture energy, and perform work, all unbelievably complex
    processes. Through it all the cell maintained itself far from equilibrium,
    not true of any atoms or molecules before they received new formational
    capacities.

    I don’t need to run through all the myriad of other functions and processes
    that the first living cell could do that these atoms were not capable of
    doing before. Morowitz (1967) is reported to have suggested a minimum cell
    with 45 biochemical functions and a diameter of 0.1 micrometers. Franklin
    said that today both numbers would be larger today because we can discern
    additional functions that are ubiquitous and logically required.

    Whether all this happened by one second after i PM is doubtful. But whether
    it happened in one second or several million years is not the point. Time is
    not of the essence here.

    As a theistic IDer, I hold that the first biological cell was irreducibly
    complex, intelligently designed, and formed by as yet unknown means that
    include the addition of new formational capabilities by divine action.

    Bob



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