Tom,
Why does "a deity who limits himself" wreak havoc with the traditional
Christian doctrine of God?
BTW, I limit myself in this discussion to Christian doctrine as expounded in
the Bible, codified in the major creeds (Apostles', Nicene, Anasthasian) and
taught in the mainstream historic "evangelical" tradition (early church to
present).
Reflecting on "God limiting Himself", we see numerous examples in scripture.
In regard to sin, Isa 43:25, Isa 44:22, Jer 31:33-34, Jer 50:20, Mic 7:19
and NT passages quoting these passages tell us that God limits Himself in
regard to our sins: when we repent and confess them He remembers them no
more. How God, being omniscient, does this, is a mystery, but His word
affirms it repeatedly.
In regard to salvation, 2 Pet. 3:9 (most notable among several similar
verses) affirms He desires all to be saved. Isa 50:2 & 59:1 affirm that
"[God's] hand is not shortened that... it cannot save..." Yet all are not
saved. Why? Either God has limited His operation (so all aren't saved) or
God is too weak to save all--a nonstarter for any who affirm traditional
Christian doctrines. This particular limitation is even more severe when
one considers that God made and preserves the wicked the for day of
destruction (Pro. 16:4, Rom 9:22 2 Pet 2:3-9).
The NT is has a great deal more to say in regard to salvation (neglecting
Calvinistic-Arminian arguments re God's predestination) with regard to How
people come to salvation. Yes, it is by God working alone--imparting within
us the gift of faith-- that we are saved (Eph. 2:8-10), but God has again
limited Himself in how His message goes to the world: the church is His
messenger. Much more can be said along this line too.
If, in regard to the most weighty matter in creation--the redemption of
mankind, God has limited Himself in a;; the above ways, why couldn't God
also limit Himself in creation? Why did God create as He did? Whether YEC
(6 days) or OEC (ages)--why didn't God do it all instantaneously? Isn't He
great enough to do so? If He is, and He chose to create as we ascertain
through our senses--in a much, much longer time frame-- one must admit that
God limited Himself in creation! The pattern of creation reveals His
character and consistency.
Howard
Likewise, God can limit Himself any way He pleases.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Pearson" <pearson@panam1.panam.edu>
To: <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: New thread: Mathematical truth (Was a sin-off of Re: How
Einstein and Hammond proved God exists)
> At 04:35 PM 09/04/2001 -0400, George Andrews Jr. wrote:
>
> >Why would a view of a deity who limits him/herself be "improper"?
>
> If we are talking about the Christian deity, then it's because such a
> proposal wreaks havoc with the traditional doctrine of God. That doctrine
> posits certain attributes of God -- omnipotence, omniscience,
> omnibenevolence, et al -- as being essential expressions of God's being.
> You cannot "limit" any of those attributes without abandoning the
> traditional portrayal of the Christian God. A Christian God whose
> omnipotence can be curtailed may turn out to be a God who cannot perform
> the miracle of redeeming and reconciling his fallen creation. A Christian
> God whose omniscience can be tampered with may not in fact know the needs
> and sufferings of his own flock (Matthew 6:32). We may not like the
> traditional depiction of God's being, and feel it needs revision, but any
> revision will produce a different picture of God.
>
> Furthermore, the notion that the Christian God can "limit himself" is
> simply incoherent. If, say, God's omnipotence is to be limited, what is
it
> within God that would do the limiting? Is there something more omnipotent
> than God's omnipotence that would limit God's omnipotence? And what kind
> of thing is "limited omnipotence," or "limited omniscience"? The
questions
> quickly become thoroughly gnarled. Most of the arguments of this sort
that
> I have encountered make some type of distinction between God's being (as
> exemplified in his traditional attributes) and God's will. Then, as the
> argument goes, God can choose to limit himself by exercising his will.
But
> this makes God's will more omnipotent than God's omnipotence, and we are
> back to incoherence. In addition, do we really want to bifurcate God into
> being and will, and pit the latter against the former, such that God has
to
> constrain his very being in order to function in accord with the biblical
> account? It all sounds "improper" to me.
>
> Tom Pearson
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Thomas D. Pearson
> Department of History & Philosophy
> The University of Texas-Pan American
> Edinburg, Texas
> e-mail: pearson@panam1.panam.edu
>
>
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