Below I intersperse my comments on Keith's posting. What is worrying is the
high level of misunderstanding of both science and the history of ideas and
science which are then used for a polemical purpose.
On racism Creationsim has at least as bad a record as evolution, and many
examples of Creationists can be found in the USA and with the formualtion of
Apartheid in South Africa.
I was aware of Creationism being a nuisance in Turkry - from Celal Senghor,
a leading Turkish geologist , with a Ph D from Rochester NY ( affectioantely
called a Young Turk by some geologists!) Thosae who saw the programme on the
Black Sea flooding will be interested that it was his private boat which was
used for filming. Celal was very worried about the problems being caused. If
Harun Yahya is such an influence they do have a problem.
Slightly rambling, but i hope it provokes.
Michael Roberts
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith B Miller" <kbmill@ksu.edu>
To: <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 4:45 PM
Subject: Evolution in Turkey
> Interestingly, I just received another post about the situation in Turkey
> from a completely different source.
>
> Political action seem to be the name of the game. Both YECs and ID are
> focussing on pshing their agendas in the political realm. They are
> essentially making an end run around the scientific community and proper
> channels of peer review and scientific evaluation.
>
> Keith
>
>
>
> > The Theory of Evolution is on the Agenda of Turkey
> > ISTANBUL / TURKEY
> > ____________________________________
> >
> > Nowadays, the Grand National Assembly of Turkey (TBMM) has placed a new
> > subject on its agenda: Darwin's theory of evolution.
> > The two separate proposals presented by the two members of Parliament
from
> > The Virtue Party, which is the main opposition party in the Parliament,
> > put "The inclusion of the theory of Evolution in school curriculum as if
> > it is a proved fact without presenting the alternative views" on the
> > agenda of the Parliament.
> > In recent weeks, Prof. Dr. Ali Goren, the member of Parliament from the
> > Virtue Party, gave a proposal to Metin Bostanciglu, the Ministry of
> > Education. In his proposal, Prof. Goren briefly asked why the theory of
> > evolution by Charles Darwin -a theory which has been already refuted by
> > modern science in the 20th century- was still being presented in course
> > books as certified facts.
I think we can guess what these are!! As he writes in Turkey I wonder what
impact A.E.Wilder Smith had when he was there in the 1970s and his woefully
inaccurate book "Man's Origin, Man's destiny"
In his proposal, Prof. Goren expressed his views
> > as follows:
> >
> > "Currently, primary and high school text books devote much space to the
> > theory of evolution by Charles Darwin. Meanwhile, the impasse of the
> > theory, the recent scientific data refuting the theory and explanations
of
> > men of science refuting the theory are not included.
What are these?
Has it been
> > considered that adopting this unilateral educational program simply
means
> > to lay the proper ground for Marxism, anarchy, terror and other
> > divisionist ideologies and to help to raise criminals by our own hands?
Is
> > it a rational and consistent implementation with our nation's interests
to
> > follow an educational program, which lays the proper ground for a
> > communist, fascist and divisionist ideology, while millions of dollars
is
> > spent to eradicate divisionist forces and anarchy from the country and,
> > for this cause, thousands of citizens sacrifice their lives?"
> >
> > The short written reply from the government upon this proposal added a
new
> > dimension to the discussions. The Minister of Education in the name of
the
> > Government stated that "the theory was a certified fact" and gave
evasive
> > answers to the questions. Not being content with these answers, Prof.
Dr.
> > Ali Goren delivered a speech in the Parliament on February 13th 2001. In
> > his speech, he stressed that the theory of evolution is defeated by
modern
> > science of the 20th century and thus it is incorrect to call the theory
"a
> > certified fact". Prof. Goren also mentioned the detriments the racist
> > views of Charles Darwin brought to the world.
See what Darwin said about the subject of slavery in the 2nd (1846) edition
of the Journal of Researches
"On the 19th of August we finally left the shores of Brazil. I thank God, I
shall never again visit a slave-country. To this day, if I hear a distant
scream, it recalls with painful vividness my feelings, when passing a house
near Pernambuco, I heard the most pitiable moans, and could not but suspect
that some poor slave was being tortured, yet knew that I was as powerless as
a child even to remonstrate. I suspected that these moans were from a
tortured slave, for I was told that this was the case in another instance.
Near Rio de Janeiro I lived opposite to an old lady, who kept screws to
crush the fingers of her female slaves. I have stayed in a house where a
young household mulatto, daily and hourly, was reviled, beaten, and
persecuted enough to break the spirit of the lowest animal. I have seen a
little boy, six or seven years old, struck thrice with a horse-whip (before
I could interfere) on his naked head, for having handed me a glass of water
not quite clean; I saw his father tremble at a mere glance from his master's
eye. These latter cruelties were witnessed by me in a Spanish colony, in
which it has always been said, that slaves are better treated than by the
Portuguese, English, or other European nations. I have seen at Rio de
Janeiro a powerful negro afraid to ward off a blow directed, as he thought,
at his face. I was present when a kind-hearted man was on the point of
separating forever the men, women, and little children of a large number of
families who had long lived together. I will not even allude to the many
heart-sickening atrocities which I authentically heard of; -- nor would I
have mentioned the above revolting details, had I not met with several
people, so blinded by the constitutional gaiety of the negro as to speak of
slavery as a tolerable evil. Such people have generally visited at the
houses of the upper classes, where the domestic slaves are usually well
treated, and they have not, like myself, lived amongst the lower classes.
Such inquirers will ask slaves about their condition; they forget that the
slave must indeed be dull, who does not calculate on the chance of his
answer reaching his master's ears.
It is argued that self-interest will prevent excessive cruelty; as if
self-interest protected our domestic animals, which are far less likely than
degraded slaves, to stir up the rage of their savage masters. It is an
argument long since protested against with noble feeling, and strikingly
exemplified, by the ever-illustrious Humboldt. It is often attempted to
palliate slavery by comparing the state of slaves with our poorer
countrymen: if the misery of our poor be caused not by the laws of nature,
but by our institutions, great is our sin; but how this bears on slavery, I
cannot see; as well might the use of the thumb-screw be defended in one
land, by showing that men in another land suffered from some dreadful
disease. Those who look tenderly at the slave owner, and with a cold heart
at the slave, never seem to put themselves into the position of the latter;
what a cheerless prospect, with not even a hope of change! picture to
yourself the chance, ever hanging over you, of your wife and your little
children -- those objects which nature urges even the slave to call his
own -- being torn from you and sold like beasts to the first bidder! And
these deeds are done and palliated by men, who profess to love their
neighbours as themselves, who believe in God, and pray that his Will be done
on earth! It makes one's blood boil, yet heart tremble, to think that we
Englishmen and our American descendants, with their boastful cry of liberty,
have been and are so guilty: but it is a consolation to reflect, that we at
least have made a greater sacrifice, than ever made by any nation, to
expiate our sin."
Now if that is racism , then I would want to be a racist!!! Sarcastic
British humour this!
Now I do think Creationists need to consider the anti-evolutionary views in
South Africa by those who supported Apartheid. A sick Calvinistic
Creationism gave the world Apartheid not Darwinian Evolution. Dare I suggest
that one looks at the past of Bob Jones University?.
He explained that it is
> > harmful to educate the new generations in the light of these racist
views
> > and included a quotation in which Darwin stated that the Turkish nation
> > was an inferior race which had not completed its evolutionary process
and
> > that it would be eliminated by the Western superior races.
I am having trouble finding this. Where Darwin talks about the extinction of
races he refers to diseases brought in which destroy an indigenous
population. If one reads Chp8 of the Descent of Man "On the races of Man"
Darwin does write in a superior manner but is as anti-racist as one could be
in 1871.
See also his correspondence with Asa Gray over the Civil War.9
Correspondence for 1860 onwards) Having done Gray-Darwin on design I should
tackle the pair on racism. They come out well, except if we overjudge from
today.
Prof. Goren
> > also added that the theory of evolution inspired communist leaders who
> > established dictatorships like Lenin, Stalin and Mao and Karl Marx, the
> > mentor of this ideology which caused disasters for the world. Goren
> > concluded his speech with the words of Marx and Stalin praising Darwin.
> > Prof. Goren quoted from Marx who said, "Darwin's book is very important
> > and serves me as a basis in natural science for he class struggle in
> > history."
And Moses has been quoted to justify racism with the sons of Ham.
and from Stalin who said, "There are three things that we do to
> > disabuse the minds of our seminary students. We had to teach them the
age
> > of the earth, the geologic origin, and Darwin's teachings."
This assumes that only a literal view of Genesis with a young earth is
orthodox belief, That has not been the case for Christianity.
Prof. Goren
> > expressed that the government needs to make changes in the curriculum to
> > present all views objectively.
> > The evasive replies of the Ministry of Education who spoke after Prof.
Ali
> > Goren indicated that the discussions would continue. Indeed, Prof. Ali
> > Goren stated that he gave a research proposal to the Parliament about
this
> > subject.
> > Last week, another member of Parliament from the Virtue Party gave a
> > proposal about the theory of evolution. Musa Uzunkaya, in his proposal,
> > raised the question: " What are the activities of the Ministry of
Culture
> > for the year 2001 to raise awareness of the public about the detriments
of
> > the Darwinist ideology and to make the scientific facts which defeat the
> > theory acknowledged by every section of the society?"
> > The topic of the theory of evolution owes its popularity in Turkey
> > extensively to the famous book of Harun Yahya, The Evolution Deceit.
This
> > unique book which made a great impact in every country it was published
> > provides concrete scientific evidence refuting the assertions of the
> > theory of evolution. The English, Spanish, Russian, Italian, Arabic and
> > Bosnian versions of the book is available in all corners of the world.
This book is available on the web (type in Harun Yahya) and is classic YEC
misunderstanding. All the usual stuff on falsity of dating methods, a
mythical Lyell who opposed the age of the earth as 6000years etc etc.
>
>
> Keith B. Miller
> Department of Geology
> Kansas State University
> Manhattan, KS 66506
> kbmill@ksu.edu
> http://www-personal.ksu.edu/~kbmill/
>
>
>
>
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