Re: Bryan and Scopes trial

From: M.B.Roberts (topper@robertschirk.u-net.com)
Date: Wed Feb 14 2001 - 17:40:41 EST

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    White's History of the warfare is fundamentally unreliable in details and in
    overview. Yet it is often the first cited on the relationship of science and
    religion. I append something I write for Victorian Religion students to warn
    them off the cowboys-n-injuns approach to science and religion.
    If you want to check White simply look up his references, but dont do it if
    you have high blood pressure. I dont think many Creationists exceed his
    skill in misquotation! I once followed up his treatment of Sam Wilberforce
    on Darwin. White quoted Wilberforce's review of the Origin 7 times; some
    were untracable, 3 were misquotes and only was almost as Wilberforce gave
    it. There are other examples.

    There are plenty of decent books on the topic, see below. Ted Davis may
    provide more.

    Micheal Roberts

    Was there really warfare between Science and Christianity?
    The classic TV portrayal of conflict between science and religion is the
    reconstruction of the Huxley-Wilberforce encounter shown in the last episode
    of the 1970s series the Voyage of the Beagle. Wilberforce is portrayed as a
    scientific ignoramus and Huxley as a cool scientific orator. In many places
    it is assumed that Orthodox Christianity means accepting creation in six
    days and any departure from that is a shift in a liberal direction. In 1999
    this was repeated by Melvin Bragg on his series on Christianity and A.N.
    Wilson in God's Funeral.

    Geology and Genesis, 1790 to 1860
     To put it simplistically Geology took off as a science in the 1790s under
    Hutton in Scotland, Smith in England and Cuvier and Brogniart in France when
    conclusive evidence was found for ordering strata and showing a vast age of
    the earth. Hutton's chief spokesman was the Rev John Playfair and Smith's
    the Revs B.Richardson and J.Townshend. Most educated people accepted the new
    findings and even the church press showed little opposition. From 1810 there
    was much geological fieldwork and in 1815 Smith produced the first
    geological map of England and Wales. Geologists came from various
    backgrounds with a considerable number of clergy, often Evangelical. The
    1820s was the heyday of clerical catastrophic geology of Buckland and
    Sedgwick, who held that strata were deposited over a long period of time
    (millions of years) in a succession of catastrophes or deluges, the Noachian
    being the last. In his Principles of Geology (1830) Lyell took over their
    methods and timescale and replaced catastrophism with uniformitarianism.
    Lyell has become a mythic figure with claims that he introduced notions of
    an ancient earth. That is bunk and has been discredited by such historians
    as Rudwick and Gould. As the vast of age of the earth was widely known in
    1790 it cannot be the case as Lyell was born in 1797, unless miracles can
    happen!
     Not all was smooth sailing and from the mid-twenties a vocal group, the
    Anti- or Scriptural Geologists, tried to show that geologists were mistaken
    and that Creation took place in 6 days. This disparate group included clergy
    and laity with a Dean of York, an Oxford Professor and Brande, Faraday's
    colleague at the Royal Institution. Scientifically their writings were
    worthless by the standards of the day and were attacked by such orthodox
    Christians as Conybeare, Buckland, Sedgwick, Sumner and Pye Smith. Lyell
    mocked from the sidelines. To give an idea of numbers, during this period I
    can name at least six Deans of Cathedrals, a dozen Bishops and half a dozen
    clerical Oxbridge professors, who actively supported geology. In the period
    1825-1850 the vast majority of Christians accepted geology, but a small and
    noisy minority did not. It is vital to get it in proportion. Andrew White in
    History of the warfare of science and theology claimed that the
    Anti-geologists were the Orthodox Party thus distorting our understanding.
    By the 1850s the Anti-geologists were a spent force and even such an extreme
    Evangelical as J.Cumming accepted geology. Almost the only exception was
    Phillip Gosse in Omphalos (1857)

    The Dawn of Evolution 1859
     The Origin of Species was the seminal work of the decade and attracted
    great interest. The popular perception is that it was violently objected to
    by the Christian Church as it "questioned both the literal accuracy of the
    first chapters of Genesis and the argument from design for the existence of
    God". The first part of this quote from Altholz is simply untrue as no
    educated Christians believed in 4004 BC in 1860, except a few ex-Plymouth
    Brethren. Design in the strict Paleyan sense may have been killed by Darwin,
    but many kept to some kind of Design; Kingsley, Gray, Temple, Birks, and
    Hensleigh and Julia Wedgwood (Darwin's Cousins). The main religious concern
    was whether our apedom would destroy our morality as Wilberforce made clear.
     The responses to Darwin are fascinating and varied and no simple answer can
    be given. Initially some scientists were in favour - Huxley and Hooker, some
    not sure - Lyell, and many against, notably the leading physicists and
    geologists. Of Anglican and Scottish Presbyterian clergy (some of
    considerable scientific ability) none were literalists, and of 30 or so
    responses I have studied they are equally divided between being for, against
    or undecided. All 30 accepted geological findings and a scientific outlook.
    Wilberforce's objections were largely geological, but felt our apedom would
    destroy Christianity. The evangelical Canon H.B. Tristram of Durham was a
    migratory bird and a competent ornithologist. He accepted and applied
    natural selection to birds in 1858, after reading Darwin's Linnean Society
    paper. He went to Oxford in 1860 an evolutionist but after hearing
    Wilberforce and Hooker (Huxley spoke too quietly to be heard) he changed his
    mind. A year or so later he became an evolutionist again and used creation
    and evolution as synonymous.
    Well. was there conflict? There was not CONFLICT, but there was conflict.
    The reviews and the meeting at Oxford show that there was controversy both
    religious and scientific. The only example of ecclesiastical prejudice I can
    find is the sacking of Prof Buchman of Cirencester Agricultural College,
    whose evolutionary ideas offended the Anglican management. By 1866 even the
    Victoria Institute were tolerating evolution, even if some members objected.
    Within two decades most educated Christians accepted some kind of evolution,
    even if, like Wallace, limited evolution to non-humans.

    Whence Conflict between Science and Religion?
     The idea that there has been a serious conflict is widely held but recent
    studies have challenged this,whether they focus narrowly on Huxley and
    Wilberforce or look more widely. The conclusion by Lindberg and Numbers,
    Gould, Brooke and Russell is that the conflict thesis comes from a reading
    back into events by some of the protagonists of the 19th century. Huxley and
    Hooker embellished their controversies with the church, Edmund Gosse in
    Father and Son made his father to be typical of Christians, Andrew White's
    massive The Warfare of Science with Theology (1896) is so flawed as to be
    worthless, despite its massive documentation which often cannot be followed
    up, Darwin's claims that at Cambridge he did not "doubt the strict and
    literal truth of every word in the Bible" are not true, Leslie Stephen's
    concerns with the historicity of the Ark has been shown by Sir Owen Chadwick
    to be the product of a lively imagination and many evangelicals had come to
    Colenso's conclusions about Noah some 30 years before 1860. Most of these
    examples are referred to in serious works of history but a little historical
    research refutes them. This does raise a few questions on Altholz's
    assertion that for Huxley and others "Truthfulness had replaced belief as
    the ultimate standard." The conflict thesis in its classic form needs to be
    consigned to the bin, BUT there is an opposite danger - the total denial of
    any conflict whatever and the claim that there was harmony. That is as
    erroneous. The other danger is to ignore popular perception as this did and
    still does reckon there is a conflict. To conclude, there was some conflict,
    which has various causes; the wish of some scientists to break away from
    church involvement, the concerns of some that evolution may eliminate God.
    There was also conflict of re-adjustment. But it is best seen as "a storm in
    a Victorian tea-cup" exaggerated for polemical purposes.
     Finally there was no serious battle of Genesis and Geology, but a few
    Christians objected to geology. By 1860 biblical literalism was virtually
    extinct but was revived in the USA in 1961 in the form of Creationism.
    Neither was there a battle royal over evolution. In 1860 hardly any educated
    people were still literalists. Until this is firmly grasped it is impossible
    to assess the relationship of Christianity and Science and to consider
    exactly what were - and are - the problems.

    References; J.H. Brooke, Science and Religion, some historical perspectives,
    Cambridge, 1991,
    Lindberg and Numbers, God and Nature 1986
    R Numbers, Darwinism comes to America (Darwin never crossed the pond
    though!!)
    Michael Ruse The evolution Wars 2000
    S.J.Gould, try historical essays in his various Penguins, which are always
    well-argued
    anything by Peter Bowler
    Brooke and Cantor, Reconstructing Nature, T&T Clark, 1998
    Marston,P and Forster, G. Science, Reason and Faith, Monarch 1999

    Michael Roberts, August 2000

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: <PHSEELY@aol.com>
    To: <tdavis@messiah.edu>
    Cc: <asa@calvin.edu>
    Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 7:47 PM
    Subject: Re: Bryan and Scopes trial

    > Ted,
    >
    > << I don't share Bill Payne's point that Bryan died "in humiliation" a few
    > days
    > after the Scopes trial. He died, yes, but after what most
    fundamentalists
    > regarded as a victory for their side: ETC>>
    >
    > This raises a question I have been wanting to ask you. I am hypothesizing
    > that whenever the Church has gone up against modern science on a
    particular
    > scientific issue, i.e, modern science says, "X", but the Bible says, "not
    X"
    > that the Church has at least over time lost the battle. Would you agree
    with
    > this or can you tell me of exceptions?
    >
    > Also, I agree with you that White's A History of the Warfare... is not
    > trustworthy, at least in the details; but, would you say it is
    fundamentally
    > reliable? And, is there a substitue book(s) that covers the same ground
    more
    > soundly? And, if not, is there some source(s) where one could check on
    > White's presentations?
    >
    > Paul
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >



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