Re: leaving the faith

From: Wayne Dawson (dawson@gray.ims.u-tokyo.ac.jp)
Date: Tue Mar 14 2000 - 23:18:40 EST

  • Next message: PHSEELY@aol.com: "Fwd: Imago Dei and the Pre-Adamite Theory"

    Glenn Morton wrote:
    > ....I know this, he simply came to beleive that Christianity wasn't
    > true. For us to place other motives into people, motives which they
    > don't say is IMO a way to solve a real problem we have without
    > really solving it.

    Once again, it would seem that a major issue is faith. We have to
    `trust' that the apostles were telling the truth, we need to `trust'
    that the prophets where making an intuitive leap of understanding when
    they wrote their message, and we have to `trust' that all the
    troubling things mentioned in Joshua, parts of the pentituch, and
    kings and chronicles have some bigger picture to them. Although the
    book of Joshua was probably written boasting about what was done, I
    find it quit sickening myself. It would be fairly easy to tip the
    balance and say that this was human enterprise, rather than see it in
    a long historical picture about the growth and understanding of a
    people in a relationship with God.

    I would say we need at least two things.

    (1) A much better metaphysics. I don't say that `facts' alone will
    help the Christian message. At some point, one has to take a stand,
    and wrestle with it. However, `facts' can help affirm our faith.
    Unlike what Prof. Haas' book states, i.e., that there are few
    instances where we come in contact with people bent on destroying our
    faith as scientists, I find the situation quite the opposite. I think
    that landscape has changed drastically, and it is quite easy to get
    mobbed by a group now. [Mind you, these are often the same people who
    (in the same breath) criticize the Spanish Inquisition and other mob
    brutalities of Christians as the `disease of religion'.] I have even
    been called 'irrational' simply for confessing that I believe in God.
    How can anyone possibly be so brazenly cock sure about what IS, is
    quite beyond my comprehension, yet that is the world I must function
    in now as a scientist.

    (2) We also need to recognize that this finally falls on `faith'. Are
    we worshiping Glenn's Ugabooga god,

    http://www.calvin.edu/archive/asa/199911/0062.html

    or are we worshiping a real God? How can we be unassailably sure that
    this is not the Ugabooga god and we are simply deluding ourselves. We
    (as Christians) have adopted a world view (in the final analysis, on
    faith and faith alone), and with it comes a lot of ethical foundations
    (divine command, for example), that are quite different from what can
    ultimately come from a rational athiesm (individual egoism, for
    example).

    It is clear to me in the end of it all, that human beings are so
    driven by their own madness, that they would even kill God (and negate
    that God's existence in the process) to follow out thier own deluded
    plans. Place me in the lot with the fools who said "crucify him", and
    the cruel thugs would tacked on a sign saying "This is Jesus King of
    the Jews", that I may understand just how far down I have fallen and
    how far away I am from understanding who God really is. In this way,
    and only this way, I can begin to understand what it takes to rise
    above these things. To repent from following a multitude to do evil,
    and to have courage enough to stall a mob on the path to doing evil.

    In Grace and by Grace alone we do proceed.
    Wayne



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Tue Mar 14 2000 - 23:18:55 EST