>At 09:04 AM 3/11/00 -0600, Wendee Holtcamp wrote:
>>I don't believe any person who was truly "in Christ" having seen the true
>>power and love and grace of the risen Lord would EVER leave. Those people
>>most likely were raised in a church and/or family where the love of Christ
>>was professed but not truly practiced.
Glenn Morton wrote:
>THat is the usual answer which I think, unfortunately salves our conciences
>for not helping our brothers and sisters in Christ to continue in the
>faith. If they weren't in the faith then it is not our fault that they left
it.
Actually I don't think it in any way pardons Christians from their
responsibility! In fact I think it gives quite the same implications as the
other perspective that you have. Perhaps some Christians with "my"
perspective (on Christians leaving the faith) allow it to salve their
conscience, but I only think it gives the church a greater responsibility to
be genuine, and genuinely centered on Christ's teachings and the working of
the Holy Spirit.
>THis approach also has the drawback that since no true believer can ever
>leave the faith, true belief becomes defined by the fact that one stayed.
>And because no true believer can ever leave, it really doesn't matter what
>we teach them because they won't be able leave the faith.
I actually didn't say that no "true believer" *could* leave the faith but
rather that I found it hard to believe that they would. It does happen, as
in Judas Iscariot. But I believe this is much rarer. I certainly believe
Satan works harder on believers -- and faith itself is a spiritual gift, not
something we muster up on our own.
>I personally have trouble with those implications. And it doesn't match the
>observations I have had of some truly committed people, Like Charles
>Templeton, who ended up leaving the faith.
I don't like to prescribe rules for how God behaves, because I know that I
usually end up wrong! But like you I do see patterns and can draw
inferences. I have found that I can make generalizations but there are
almost always exceptions. I still do believe that someone with a real
relationship with Christ would have a hard time leaving, but I'm sure it
does happen. Isn't Charles Templeton the one who started the Templeton
Foundation? Isn't that a spiritual organization? In that case he believes he
is still following God perhaps, but is deluded by the father of lies? Aren't
we all, in some form or fashion, I'm sure. "Draw near to God and He will
draw near to you. Resist the devil and he will flee from you." I love that
scripture!
Wendee
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