[I deleted my original message]
>Sorry, Moorad, I don't think that human beings really can create anything.
>Not mathematics either. It is much more than a tool, though it is needed
>to describe God's creation in other areas. God created numbers, space and
>time. The most we can do is name them, as Adam named creatures in the
>garden. I don't understand why you do not answer the objections some of us
>have against Intelligent Design. I too believe that the difference between
>believer and non-believer becomes more clear every day, but not in the way
>you think. I'll try once more to state my objections:
Mathematics is a human invention. Of course, it my be directly linked to our
being created in the image of God, but the connection is not clear to us
humans. I grant you that God created spacetime and "everything" in it.
However, I do not know how God created the number "pi" since that has to do
with non existing perfect circles. In fact, all of our theoretical science
is a over idealizations of reality.
>1. Who are we, who with our created brains want to decide what is
>"intelligent" and what is not? If we see the thorns and thistles and
>natural disasters, are we able to say: "God created them in order to make
>life difficult for men?" Maybe we can on the basis of Scriptures, but you
>certainly need the Word of God to say that that is "intelligent."
We have an intellect and can recognize it in other humans. Why does it
require such complicated mathematics to describe nature? Only "intelligent"
people understand such a profound description of nature. Intelligence does
not come into existence out of the vacuum, therefore, there must be
intelligence behind the creation. It can never be self-evident to me that
human intellect comes out of nonrational matter.
>2. As the Bible clearly states, and I quoted texts in the past, nothing on
>this earth happens outside the will of God. The clearest examples, I
>think, are in the Old Testament, where the Lord calls heathen nations to
>punish Israel. Or think of the Exodus story.
I have no qualms about what you say. But to us humans it is not clear how
God is the source of our ideas.
>3. Do I understand you correctly, that once the process began, there is no
>need to invoke our faith? I believe, that that statement is directly
>contradicting the fact that we follow our Lord everywhere and in
>everything. I believe that I am always and everywhere in everything I do
>His child, studying His laws, his creatures etc. To state differently
>takes part of your life away from God, something we are not allowed to do.
Not in the pursuit of knowledge of the physical universe. I clearly
indicated that such a pursuit is not the most important form of knowledge
that man needs for daily life. Man must know himself and that is only
accomplished by knowing Jesus Christ.
>4. Indeed, the difference between unbeliever and believer will become
>clearer in every aspect, that includes sciences too. If you keep the
>sciences out, you have an unredeemed area in your life.
I believe that the more "science" you know the closer it brings you to God.
But atheists can be excellent scientists. The pursuit of scientific truths
is amoral. This is certainly true in physics. However, there are areas where
one deals with living beings where the pursuit of scientific truths may not
be totally amoral.
>5. Non-scientific issues are the only real important issues in your life?
>That is a dangerous and unchristian statement. God does not want half a
>person, but a whole person. If you think that science does not belong to
>God, than you should not be involved on this list, where Christians want to
>talk with Christians about how to do science.
Besides being a professor of physics, I am a husband, father, brother,
uncle, etc. in such matter science has little to say. I rely on the Word of
God to fulfill such roles. When scientists who are Christians talk about
science, they need not talk about God. At least, that is the case in
physics. I do not know about biologists. I suppose if you are discussing
issues of origins, then God must certainly come ultimately into the picture.
I am very much interested in the integration of science and Christianity. It
is clear to be that both pursuits will lead to God. But there is no sense of
speculating on issues that man is not ready to answer. Most of our
discussions are helpful so that we can intelligently discuss some issues
with non Christians. I learn a lot from the discussions of others in
scientific areas that I am not knowledgable.
>6. God created everything, so everything is studying God's Creation. We
>may use different names, and have different theories, but basically all of
>us want to serve God by trying to describe creation and the history of
>creation. We may have theories, which others are criticizing. As soon as
>somebody leaves it out of the important issues of life, it is not worth
>studying. (The result will be that we have no defence against the secular
>orld.)
Most people in the world could care less about science. Nevertheless their
concern deals with questions that a more important than scientific
questions. Issues of grief, love, hate, meaning, pursue, etc. have nothing
to do with science. Therein lies the importance of the Word of God.
>Jan de Koning
>Willowdale, Ont.
Take care,
Moorad