Re: When the Magi visited Nazareth...(was Re: [asa] Gospel in the Stars WAS Star of Bethlehem presentation?)

Good point Pete. Fundamentalism with associated YEC is a great recipe for
developing unbelief. This is why churches which allow some latitude are so
much healthier

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pete Enns" <peteenns@mac.com>
To: "Dehler, Bernie" <bernie.dehler@intel.com>
Cc: "ASA" <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: When the Magi visited Nazareth...(was Re: [asa] Gospel in the
Stars WAS Star of Bethlehem presentation?)

> Bernie, trust me: your church experience was strongly fundamentalist. If
> that were my only church experience I'd be where you are. Thankfully, the
> history of the church shows fundamentalism (and a lot of evangelicalism)
> to be somewhat parenthetical. I think it is a good idea if you did not
> argue against Xty on the basis of a fundamentalist paradigm.
>
> Pete
>
> On Nov 25, 2009, at 11:53 AM, Dehler, Bernie wrote:
>
>> Murray- in my opinion, that is a superb example of twisting the
>> Scripture, rather than accepting it for what it is.
>>
>> Pete- This is the kind of stuff that is not new to me. And this is the
>> kind of stuff that most Pastors pettle in the churches, from my
>> experience. That's why I appreciate your insight (and other scholars,
>> like Bart Ehrman) in dealing with the passage more honestly, in my
>> opinion.
>>
>> ...Bernie
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
>> Behalf Of Murray Hogg
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 8:15 PM
>> To: ASA
>> Subject: When the Magi visited Nazareth...(was Re: [asa] Gospel in the
>> Stars WAS Star of Bethlehem presentation?)
>>
>> Sorry all for exceeding my post count yet again but you should find this
>> one good fun! :-[
>>
>> Dave Wallace wrote:
>>> I doubt it even contains discussion of whether or not Jesus and his
>>> parents went to Nazareth and then Egypt or in the other order.
>>> Scripture is not an exhaustive history by any means and the authors
>>> had different audiences they were writing for. Frankly I don't think
>>> the order matters at all. Maybe Pete or Murray have a different
>>> opinion.
>>
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>> First, I have to say that questions of this sort are not really of that
>> much interest to me. Frankly, I know the NT scholarship pretty well and
>> I have to say that the discussion so far hasn't even scratched the
>> surface of the difficulties. There's lots more "problems" than the
>> question of chronology and I've already factored most of those into my
>> understanding of the nature and role of scripture.
>>
>> But that said, there is one commonly overlooked solution to this
>> supposed "problem";
>>
>> Very early in Christian history (c. 160-70 AD) a guy by the name of
>> Tatian put together a harmony of the Four Gospels known as "The
>> Diatessaron of Tatian."
>>
>> In his harmony, Tatian places the return to Nazareth BEFORE the visit of
>> the Magi. Which seems kinda strange until we realize that - contrary to
>> the assumption that most people read into the text - Matthew never
>> actually states that the Magi visit Bethlehem!
>>
>> What it DOES say is (1) Jesus was born in Bethlehem, (2) Herod's
>> religious advisers told him Bethlehem would be Christ's birth place; (3)
>> Herod directs the Magi to Bethlehem; and (4) the Magi follow the star to
>> where Jesus was.
>>
>> But it DOESN'T say that Jesus was in Bethlehem OR that the Magi visited
>> there.
>>
>> So if we follow Tatian's ordering;
>>
>> Joseph and Mary go to Bethlehem where Christ is born
>> The Holy Family visits Jerusalem for the rites of purification
>> They return to Nazareth
>> The Magi visit the Holy Family *in Nazareth*
>> The Holy Family flees to Egypt
>> Herod's henchmen massacre the children of Bethlehem
>>
>> It turns out that there isn't even a problem to be addressed - unless
>> you want to read into the Gospel narrative something that isn't actually
>> there!
>>
>> Blessings,
>> Murray.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
>> "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
>> "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
>
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
> "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
>
>

To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
Received on Thu Nov 26 02:31:00 2009