Re: [asa] (euthanasia) morals/ethics

Obviously you read my article (if at all) very carelessly & tendentiously.
No surprise - that seems to be how you read everything.

Shalom
George
http://home.roadrunner.com/~scitheologyglm

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dehler, Bernie" <bernie.dehler@intel.com>
To: "ASA" <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 3:41 PM
Subject: RE: [asa] (euthanasia) morals/ethics

> Hi George- I know you meant that "not every answer is in chapter and
> verse" but that "the Bible generally gives us direction." So my question,
> what direction???
>
> I just read your article. And your answer is that there is no answer. (And
> yes, I see the 'direction' or hints for deciding the issue that you are
> providing.)
>
> Oh, so what's left? Reason. Oh, now you are at the same place as the
> atheist. both relying on reason. And the result: one Christian may agree
> with an atheist in pulling the plug, and another Christian may agree with
> another atheist in prolonging life every second possible.
>
> So why didn't God tell someone? He doesn't care? Because this issue isn't
> as important as abortion or hom.ose-xuality (which the Bible does seem to
> directly address)? And I don't think this is a modern problem. Look at how
> King Saul died, by suicide. King Saul's "good Samaritan" finished him off
> as Saul pleaded, yet David had this guy killed. Seems to me like David was
> in the wrong there (David should be guilty of murder, in my opinion, for
> having this guy killed). Do you agree?
>
> RE:
> 2 Samuel 1
> David Hears of Saul's Death
> 1 After the death of Saul, David returned from defeating the Amalekites
> and stayed in Ziklag two days. 2 On the third day a man arrived from
> Saul's camp, with his clothes torn and with dust on his head. When he came
> to David, he fell to the ground to pay him honor.
> 3 "Where have you come from?" David asked him.
> He answered, "I have escaped from the Israelite camp."
> 4 "What happened?" David asked. "Tell me."
> He said, "The men fled from the battle. Many of them fell and died. And
> Saul and his son Jonathan are dead."
> 5 Then David said to the young man who brought him the report, "How do you
> know that Saul and his son Jonathan are dead?"
> 6 "I happened to be on Mount Gilboa," the young man said, "and there was
> Saul, leaning on his spear, with the chariots and riders almost upon him.
> 7 When he turned around and saw me, he called out to me, and I said, 'What
> can I do?'
> 8 "He asked me, 'Who are you?'
> " 'An Amalekite,' I answered.
> 9 "Then he said to me, 'Stand over me and kill me! I am in the throes of
> death, but I'm still alive.'
> 10 "So I stood over him and killed him, because I knew that after he had
> fallen he could not survive. And I took the crown that was on his head and
> the band on his arm and have brought them here to my lord."
> 11 Then David and all the men with him took hold of their clothes and tore
> them. 12 They mourned and wept and fasted till evening for Saul and his
> son Jonathan, and for the army of the LORD and the house of Israel,
> because they had fallen by the sword.
> 13 David said to the young man who brought him the report, "Where are you
> from?"
> "I am the son of an alien, an Amalekite," he answered.
> 14 David asked him, "Why were you not afraid to lift your hand to destroy
> the LORD's anointed?"
> 15 Then David called one of his men and said, "Go, strike him down!" So he
> struck him down, and he died. 16 For David had said to him, "Your blood be
> on your own head. Your own mouth testified against you when you said, 'I
> killed the LORD's anointed.' "
>
> .Bernie
>
> ________________________________________
> From: George Murphy [mailto:GMURPHY10@neo.rr.com]
> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 9:35 AM
> To: Dehler, Bernie; ASA
> Subject: Re: [asa] (euthanasia) morals/ethics
>
> Your characterization of my position is quite inaccurate. What I have said
> is that the God in whom Christians believe provides a basis for ethics. I
> have never said that the Bible gives us the answers for all ethical &
> moral questions that arise. In discussing the 10 Commandments with 8th
> graders for confirmation I always made a point of giving them a few
> mini-case studies in which the demands of 2 or more commandments were, at
> least superficially, in conflict. That is precisely because I didn't want
> them to think that all the problems they'd be faced with could be dealt
> with by pulling out an appropriate Bible verse. In other words, welcome to
> the real world.
>
> A brief article of mine that deals with euthanasia & related matters,
> "Death in a High-Tech Age", is at
> http://www2.elca.org/faithandscience/covalence/archive/pre2004/covalence_vol3_no3.pdf .
>
> Shalom
> George
> http://home.roadrunner.com/~scitheologyglm
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dehler, Bernie" <bernie.dehler@intel.com>
> To: "ASA" <asa@calvin.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 12:16 PM
> Subject: RE: [asa] (euthanasia) morals/ethics
>
>> For those who think like George, that morals come from God and can be
>> discovered from the Bible, how do you find the right position on
>> euthanasia, or 'mercy killing?'
>>
>> Even as a Christian, I saw nothing wrong with a person taking their life
>> if they had some disease that they would just eventually waste away
>> anyway. (As the argument goes, if we can kill an animal out of mercy, why
>> not so much more a human?) I've had relatives that died that way-
>> slipping into coma and eventually dying or going through a long period of
>> ever worsening dementia before dying.
>>
>> I think the simpleton approach, likely the Catholic approach, is to say
>> that it is wrong to take one's life in all cases; no exceptions. Maybe we
>> could even argue that this Catholic position is immoral, as it prolongs
>> needless suffering (it is ironic how there is such an emphasis on
>> clinging to life as if this is the only life there is; but Catholics
>> should think of death as a 'coming home party' if they believe in an
>> afterlife, and not fear it.)
>>
>> Some may be worried about the slippery slope; allow euthanasia in a good
>> case, then what about other trivial cases, like when a teenager has a bad
>> day at school and wants to end it all? To me that is akin to saying
>> driving licenses shouldn't be given out because children may want one or
>> incompetent people may want one. Solution: making reasonable rules.
>> (Note, "reasonable" comes from "reason.")
>>
>> So what is the right Christian stance on euthanasia? How can it be
>> discovered? How does God tell us? And if God doesn't tell us, why not?
>> And if He doesn't tell us on this one, why does He tell us on others? For
>> example, is the gay issue more important, so God tells us about that one;
>> but euthanasia isn't as important?
>>
>> I'm just saying lets see how the rubber meets the road. If the Bible or
>> God is our source for morals, what is this source saying? And how can we
>> discover it?
>>
>> And beware the 'no true scotsman' fallacy where you might say only the
>> 'true' Christians have the right answer ('true' meaning the sect you
>> belong to):
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
>>
>> ...Bernie
>
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
> "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
Received on Thu Oct 22 16:30:30 2009