RE: [asa] Re: (religious memes?) [christians_in_science] Brilliant article by Dawkins

Dave said:
"I also noted what involves anthropological and archeological evidence antedating the 15th century B.C."

I don't understand your point- can you re-state it? Is your point that the practice of animals being sacrificed for sin antedate Moses who instituted the sacrificial system for sin? You said: "Even if the existence of Abel and Noah are discounted, one has to recognize that there were animal sacrifices before Moses came along." Can you elaborate on that and how it applies to the discussion? Are we both saying that there was a sacrificial system for sin before Moses came along- the difference being that prior to Moses the sacrifices were to, what you would consider, false gods? (A deist/atheist would say that all gods of the OT/NT are false... not believing in Yahweh, the god of the bible.)

...Bernie
________________________________
From: dfsiemensjr [mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 1:26 PM
To: Dehler, Bernie
Cc: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] Re: (religious memes?) [christians_in_science] Brilliant article by Dawkins

Looks like you're hung up on one line of evidence. I also noted what involves anthropological and archeological evidence antedating the 15th century B.C.
Dave (ASA)

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:40:47 -0700 "Dehler, Bernie" <bernie.dehler@intel.com<mailto:bernie.dehler@intel.com>> writes:
Unfortunately, Abel is not a real historical person (since Adam is also not a real historical figure)- I side with Christian TE's who say that, as Denis Lamoureux. So I don't want to argue that- you can argue that with the faction of TE's who defend it.

Where did this story of Abel (Genesis) come from? Moses? Moses may have written part of it, but Sparks thinks Moses is not the only author of Genesis and Genesis has been redacted. The Genesis stories are based/influenced on other pre-existing ANE material. I agree with the TE's that think that.

...Bernie

________________________________
From: dfsiemensjr [mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 12:01 PM
To: Dehler, Bernie
Cc: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] Re: (religious memes?) [christians_in_science] Brilliant article by Dawkins

Bernie,
You should recall that Abel sacrificed a lamb and Noah sacrificed after the flood. Even if the existence of Abel and Noah are discounted, one has to recognize that there were animal sacrifices before Moses came along.
Dave (ASA)

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:08:17 -0700 "Dehler, Bernie" <bernie.dehler@intel.com<mailto:bernie.dehler@intel.com>> writes:
David Clounch said:
"So you are saying the atonement sacrifices prior to Moses were real and had meaning and weren't just part of some untrue pagan religion?"

What I was thinking is this:

 1. Jesus died for our sins. Why is death required?
 2. Because it is fulfillment of sacrificial system introduced by Moses from God.

Therefore, one might think this was God's unique plan. So, doesn't it weaken (and I think fatally weaken) the whole point to discover that sacrifice for sin was practiced by other cultures prior to Moses (like the idea of 'throw the virgin into the volcano to pacify the angry gods to end the draught')? Same with circumcision.

So- what were these ancient near east precursors? That is the fun of reading Sparks' book:
"Ancient Texts For The Study Of The Hebrew Bible: A Guide To The Background Literature."
http://www.amazon.com/Ancient-Texts-Study-Hebrew-Bible/dp/1565634071/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_2/189-9860859-6596268

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Received on Fri Aug 28 22:00:48 2009