Re: [asa] (what's a fact?) Brilliant article by Dawkins

A fact that can be disproven isn't a fact - if it's disproven, it wasn't a
fact to begin with. By your reasoning, geocentricity was a fact until better
observation came along. Then suddenly heliocentrism became a fact. And then
heliocentrism was no longer a fact after we realized the sun isn't the
center of the universe.

On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Dehler, Bernie <bernie.dehler@intel.com>wrote:

> Terry said:
> "Are you sure heliocentricity is a fact?"
>
> It is a true fact until disproven, like all other facts. What we know, for
> sure, is that geocentricity has been disproven. It is a false fact.
>
> ...Bernie
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
> Behalf Of Terry M. Gray
> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:00 PM
> To: ASA
> Subject: Re: [asa] (what's a fact?) Brilliant article by Dawkins
>
> Bernie,
>
> Are you sure heliocentricity is a fact? Dawkins, in his recent piece,
> calls heliocentricity a theory, rightly, I think. There are facts/
> observations that lead to a heliocentricity inference, right? It could
> then be asked, what is the theory-ladenness of those (or any)
> observations?
>
> I think these are the kinds of questions that modern philosophy of
> science push us to ask. One of the consequences is that the difference
> between fact and theory is lessened. Perhaps a main difference is that
> the word "theory" is used to tie together lots of theory-laden facts.
> We speak of some theories as "fact" when they appear to be highly
> confirmed via lots of disparate theory-laden facts and over time
> involving significant challenges to their success.
>
> TG
>
>
> On Aug 25, 2009, at 12:36 PM, Dehler, Bernie wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Moorad said:
> > " Is there a difference between a scientific and a historical fact?
> > When are they the same and when different?"
> >
> > Facts are pieces of data to which you use to infer other facts or to
> > form opinions. A 'scientific fact' is based on science, and
> > 'historical fact' is based on history.
> >
> > A scientific fact from ancient history, now known to be wrong:
> > Geocentricity
> >
> > It is replaced with the modern scientific fact called heliocentricity.
> >
> > ...Bernie
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]
> > On Behalf Of Alexanian, Moorad
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 8:22 AM
> > To: Jack; asa@calvin.edu
> > Subject: RE: [asa] Brilliant article by Dawkins
> >
> > Is there a difference between a scientific and a historical fact?
> > When are they the same and when different?
> >
> > Moorad
> > ________________________________
> > From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
> > Behalf Of Jack [drsyme@verizon.net]
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 6:33 AM
> > To: asa@calvin.edu
> > Subject: Re: [asa] Brilliant article by Dawkins
> >
> > I dont know about it being brilliant. He spends a lot of time
> > talking about how evolution isnt a "theory" its a fact, when we all
> > know that the word theory has more meanings than the sense that he
> > is using it.
> >
> > I also bristle a bit at his suggestions on what preachers should
> > preach about. This is disingenuous isnt it? What he really wants
> > is for there to be no church, no preachers, and no religion.
> > Perhaps he wants the preachers to say that the existence of Adam and
> > Eve isnt factual just to create dissension, not to spread truth.
> > Since evolution does not necessarily negate the historicity of Adam
> > he is straying to far from his area of expertise here.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Michael Roberts<mailto:michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk>
> > To: christians_in_science@yahoogroups.com<mailto:
> christians_in_science@yahoogroups.com
> > > ; asa@calvin.edu<mailto:asa@calvin.edu> ; acg@list.dordt.edu<mailto:
> acg@list.dordt.edu
> > >
> > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 3:04 PM
> > Subject: [asa] Brilliant article by Dawkins
> >
> > No, I am not joking. There was an absolutely brilliant article in
> > The Times today on the menace of creationism. Excellent stuff, not
> > one attack on Christianity. It does have a few necessary comments on
> > bishops and clergy put in an understatement.
> >
> > Ii is on http://tinyurl.com/nhgu7m
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
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> >
> >
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>
> ________________
> Terry M. Gray, Ph.D.
> Computer Support Scientist
> Chemistry Department
> Colorado State University
> Fort Collins, CO 80523
> (o) 970-491-7003 (f) 970-491-1801
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>
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Received on Tue Aug 25 15:39:01 2009