Re: [asa] Fear and Loathing on this list

Good point, Iain. One shouldn't often assume the rank of a Biblical prophet to
say the least. There are some pretty nasty consequences declared for falsely
presuming that.

On the word 'judgment' it seems we too easily hide behind the numerous 'judge
not' passages as a cop-out sometimes. In John alone several different
references can leave one as confused about whether Jesus himself ever exercised
that option --John 3:17, 8:15/16, 12:47 make it pretty clear he wasn't here to
judge the world. But 5:22, 5:30, and 7:24 seem to show that he did exercise
that function some. But taking context into account, and whether Jesus is
speaking of God working through him, etc. may help clear up some of that. The
balance of Scriptures certainly back you up Iain, that judgment is best left to
God alone. As long as we don't take it too far and decline from any
discernment, rebuke, or correction at all ---Scriptures are pretty clear that
we aren't to leave those things undone. And conflict avoiders like myself so
easily use the 'do not judge' mantra to avoid having to say anything to anybody
at all.

--Merv

Quoting Iain Strachan <igd.strachan@gmail.com>:

> On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Merv Bitikofer <mrb22667@kansas.net>
> wrote: (inter alia)
> But at some
> > point, we are called to "gently restore our brother", and I agree with you
> > fully that "gently" means without sarcasm or biting vitriol --- though it
> > would seem Jesus & other previous prophets pushed the envelope on that a
> > bit. (and we are called to be like Christ, so we can't just dismissively
> > say, "well that was Him" nevertheless I agree with you that Paul's
> > exhortations still stand also.)
>
> Actually I think you can legitimately say "that was him", in this
> case. It is clear (to me at any rate) that the "voice" being used in
> the passage is a prophetic one, and sounds like many passages from the
> Old Testament prophets. Calling down woes on people is a clear
> prophetic warning of future judgement from God.
>
> But Jesus calls upon US not to judge - it is for God to judge and not
> for us. Indeed, if we judge, we'll be judged for the same faults - we
> will be the ones accused of hypocrisy.
>
> So I think it is a lame excuse indeed to use the "nasty" tone of
> Matthew 23 to justify being thoroughly obnoxious to folks like YEC's,
> unless those who do so are claiming they are "charismatic" Christians
> with the gift of prophecy, and were called upon by the Holy Spirit to
> use vitriol and sarcasm.
>
> Surely a better model is how Jesus treated the woman taken in
> adultery. Did he condemn her? No. Did he call her a "braying
> jackass"? No. Did he say she was a slut and a whore? No. He didn't
> condemn her. But he DID say that she mustn't sin any more.
>
> So if your YEC friend comes out with a piece of "scientific
> explanation" that is a clear falsehood - you shouldn't go in all guns
> blazing and tell them they're a filthy liar. You should reason; point
> out that the so-called "science" they are using is utterly flawed and
> false, and that they mustn't use it again. If that person then
> continues to use that fallacious argument - that's their
> responsibility, not yours. But if you go in and tell them they're a
> filthy liar, then you will be called in judgement for all the times
> you've been less than 100% truthful, (Matthew 7:1-2), and which of us
> can hold our hands up and say that wouldn't happen to us?
>
> Iain
>

To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
Received on Tue Feb 17 16:21:38 2009