RE: [asa] baby-making (was: Two questions... (bottlenecking))

Bernie,

You wrote:
"I think the obvious answer is that God does not literally "knit us together" in our mother's womb, because if He did, it meant He was making retarded and other such (junk) babies. Yes- junk, because some of it is not viable and dies in the womb or shortly thereafter."

Quite frankly, I am horrified by this statement. The utility or biological functionality of a person has nothing to do with determining the value of a person. There are no babies that are "junk" - all are loved and valued by God, regardless of how short their life may be or how broken their bodies are. Indeed, in II Corinthians 12:9, Paul writes "And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me." and in John 9:2-3, it's written "And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him."

What may be "junk" to you may be a beautiful person through which God works. And who knows what they will accomplish, both in this life, and in the life to come in God's kingdom? Was Helen Keller a junk baby? How about those who compete in the Special Olympics? Are disabled children not the "least of these"? Disabled children are as much a gift to us as non-disabled children, perhaps even more so because they help us see what is really important in life; they give us a different perspective. They help us to see that the value of a person is NOT in their utility or their biological functionality, its in their very being--their being loved by God, which is root of all human worth.

In Christ,
Christine

"For we walk by faith, not by sight" ~II Corinthians 5:7

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--- On Tue, 2/17/09, Dehler, Bernie <bernie.dehler@intel.com> wrote:

> From: Dehler, Bernie <bernie.dehler@intel.com>
> Subject: RE: [asa] baby-making (was: Two questions... (bottlenecking))
> To:
> Cc: "ASA" <asa@calvin.edu>
> Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 11:22 AM
> I think the obvious answer is that God does not literally
> "knit us together" in our mother's womb,
> because if He did, it meant He was making retarded and other
> such (junk) babies. Yes- junk, because some of it is not
> viable and dies in the womb or shortly thereafter.
>
>
>
> Instead, God invented the evolutionary process to create
> physical beings- which is brilliant because there's no
> better way of doing it (other than creation by fiat which
> would create an unrealistic world, because no one would be
> able to trust their senses if things were made by fiat).
>
>
>
> ...Bernie
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu
> [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of Dick
> Fischer
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 9:27 PM
> To: 'David Clounch'
> Cc: ASA
> Subject: RE: [asa] Two questions... (bottlenecking)
>
>
>
> Hi David:
>
>
>
> Certainly I don't have any good answers. I think God
> cares more for hearts
>
> that are perfect toward Him than He seems to about physical
> death and
>
> suffering which is simply part of life.
>
>
>
> Dick Fischer, GPA president
>
> Genesis Proclaimed Association
>
> "Finding Harmony in Bible, Science and History"
>
> www.genesisproclaimed.org
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: David Clounch [mailto:david.clounch@gmail.com]
>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 12:13 PM
>
> To: Dick Fischer
>
> Cc: ASA
>
> Subject: Re: [asa] Two questions... (bottlenecking)
>
>
>
> Dick,
>
>
>
> Its a very good question. Does God allow us to be born
> even though He
>
> knows something horrible will affect our lives and make us
> miserable.
>
> Its the "problem of pain" all over again.
>
> Did God cause all this pain? If so, is He still good?
> Seems to me
>
> this question is something we all have to deal with.
>
>
>
> If God allows pain is He good. If by allowing it He causes
> it, is He
>
> still good? Terrible questions, aren't they?
>
>
>
> -Dave
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Dick Fischer
> <dickfischer@verizon.net>
>
> wrote:
>
> > I hope he didn't have Down's Syndrome.
>
> >
>
> > Dick Fischer, GPA president
>
> > Genesis Proclaimed Association
>
> > "Finding Harmony in Bible, Science and
> History"
>
> > www.genesisproclaimed.org
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> > From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu
> [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
>
> > Behalf Of David Clounch
>
> > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 5:50 AM
>
> > To: asa@calvin.edu
>
> > Subject: Re: [asa] Two questions... (bottlenecking)
>
> >
>
> > Yesterday a friend was buried. On the card from his
> service was Psalms
>
> > 139:13-16.
>
> >
>
> > verse 16 says,
>
> >
>
> > " Your eyes have seen my unformed substance;
>
> > And in Your book were all written
>
> > The days that were ordained for me,
>
> > When as yet there was not one of them. " NASV
>
> >
>
> > This Psalm raises an interesting idea. God knew all
> the details and
>
> > design of the man's life long before he was born.
> And ordained
>
> > (pre-planned) his days and fate.
>
> >
>
> > Sounds like design to me.
>
> >
>
> > And I cant see where there is any way any series of
> natural processes
>
> > can produce any such pre-planned creature or detailed
> days of his
>
> > life. Not without massive tinkering and interference
> with the flow of
>
> > natural processes.
>
> >

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Received on Tue Feb 17 12:59:36 2009