I can leave it off, because it clearly stated the ASA has no position on YEC in general.
A question: Why not have a position against YEC since this is a group of scientists who reject a young earth because it goes against science? Their name alone disqualifies them in science- "young earth" (unlike 'old earth' or titles with 'evolutionist' in it).
Yes- it will create controversy, but that's what standing for the truth does.
It is like racism. At one time, it was allowed in society. I heard that Billy Graham was one person on the front (in one instance anyway), refusing to abide by a church's rule of having blacks segregated at a rally. This caused problems in the church at the time. Looking back, it was obvious the right thing to do, and we can now say it was good. But at the time, people in the church denounced him. Those on the front have to take a stand.
If evangelical Christianity in the USA gets over YEC in the next 20 years, they will look back and wonder who was in the front pushing for the righteous charge? Were was the ASA?
I started looking into the origin's issues in depth about 1 to 2 years ago. At first I was mostly YEC, then mostly OEC, then almost left the faith before coming to evolutionary creationism. IF ASA was anti-YEC, it would have been a cold slap in the face, but one that would have made me think. It is like a male being slapped in the face by a woman for an inappropriate move (not that it has happened to me ;-). You don't like it, but it makes you think.
So if a young earth certainly can't be held on scientific grounds, and this is a group of scientific Christians, why is it being tolerated? Simply for the sake of peace and trying to avoid a controversy?
Again- this reminds me of one of my favorite quotes:
By Dr. A. C. Dixon, who was pastor of the Moody Church in Chicago, and later of Spurgeon's Tabernacle in London:
"Every preacher ought to be primarily a prophet of God who preaches as God bids him, without regard to results. When he becomes conscious of the fact that he is a leader in his own church or denomination, he has reached a crisis in his ministry. He must now choose one of two courses, that of prophet of God or a leader of men. If he seeks to be a prophet and a leader, he is apt to make a failure of both. If he decides to be a prophet only insofar as he can do so without losing his leadership, he becomes a diplomat and ceases to be a prophet at all. If he decides to maintain leadership at all costs, he may easily fall to the level of a politician who pulls the wires in order to gain or hold a position."
I think it is applicable at the organization level as well.
This email is probably an irritant because I'm only been in the ASA for a little over a year and it has likely already been discussed ad-nauseam. I am aware of the history of ASA and YEC's; read about it in multiple places. Maybe it is time to debate it once again since we have the new DNA evidence from the human genome (previous arguments were about rocks and fossils and how to interpret their data).
...Bernie
-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of skrogh
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 12:45 PM
To: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: RE: [asa] Yes -- the YECs are still winning
But you can't leave off,
> or which acknowledges the
> unresolved discrepancy between scientific data and a young-earth position.
However,
> claims that scientific data affirm a young earth do not meet the
> criterion of integrity in science.
Where the claim is made that the data would actually suggest a YE, would not
be endorsed, as it does not meet the criterion of integrity in science. I
can't remember who wrote this on the list, but it nail that sentiment
beautifully.
"I believe we need to be clear in such discussions that as Christians, we
believe in the possibility of God doing miracles, which are beyond any human
explanation. The point here, though, is truthfulness. It is disingenuous
to say "science proves" Young-Earth Creation, when in the end it's not
science that proves it, but rather some highly contrived and speculative
miraculous events that are neither witnessed in the scriptural record nor by
any observable evidence. If you want to believe that "God did it" in a
certain way, and ignore the scientific evidence, then at least be honest and
admit this is a purely theological conclusion. I don't believe God is going
to condemn a person who is ignorant of the scientific facts and simply
chooses to believe a theological assertion of God as Creator. However,
lying about what science actually "proves" is not something a Christian
should do. If one is going to claim a scientifically verifiable explanation
(or even invoke an unproved hypothesis), then there needs to be a forthright
acknowledgement of the scientific evidence or lack thereof."
=========================================
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu
> [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]On Behalf Of Dehler, Bernie
> Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 2:25 PM
> To: asa@calvin.edu
> Subject: RE: [asa] Yes -- the YECs are still winning
>
>
> " Accordingly, the ASA neither endorses nor opposes young-earth
> creationism which recognizes the possibility of a recent creation
> with appearance of age..."
>
> OK- so it could be true after all. The ASA, as a group of
> scientifically-minded Christian people, would not tolerate any
> travesties (or lies or errors) done in science in the name of
> Christ; so since they don't oppose it, it could be a viable option.
>
> Yes, RATE is denounced, but not YEC in general.
>
> ...Bernie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu
> [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of Randy Isaac
> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 7:25 PM
> To: asa@calvin.edu
> Subject: Re: [asa] Yes -- the YECs are still winning
>
> Bernie wrote:
> > But even the ASA doesn't have a position against YEC, so maybe
> it is true?
> > ;-)
>
> From PSCF June 2007 Vol. 59 No. 2 p. 143-146
>
> "The ASA does not take a position on issues when there is honest
> disagreement among Christians provided there is adherence to our
> statement
> of faith and to integrity in science. Accordingly, the ASA
> neither endorses
> nor opposes young-earth creationism which recognizes the possibility of a
> recent creation with appearance of age or which acknowledges the
> unresolved
> discrepancy between scientific data and a young-earth position. However,
> claims that scientific data affirm a young earth do not meet the
> criterion
> of integrity in science. Any portrayal of the RATE project as confirming
> scientific support for a young earth contradicts the RATE project's own
> report. The ASA can and does oppose such deception."
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Received on Thu Feb 5 16:35:48 2009
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