Re: [asa] Message: "Nature and God"

Kirk -

Yes, when Paul speaks of evidence for God in Rom.1, he does it only to emphasize its judgmental function - "so they are without excuse." People can come to the conclusion that there is "a" God but not the true God.

& yes, I agree that the distinction between El & YHWH in the psalm is significant. Again it's a distinction between a general idea of God and the revealed God of Israel.

Shalom,
George

---- Kirk Bertsche <Bertsche@aol.com> wrote:
> George,
>
> Yes, I'm familiar with your views, and I recently re-read your PSCF
> article on this topic. You make a strong case. I agree with you
> that there are limitations to general revelation.
>
> But in the context of Rom 1:18-21, Paul seems to be speaking of all
> mankind, not only those who have special revelation. He says that
> the message of general revelation is "clear" and "plain" to them,
> that they "knew God", but that they have rejected this revelation.
> Paul presents this rejection as universal; so as you say, we probably
> should not expect anyone to come to God through it. But on the other
> hand, Paul says that it is clear and that man is without excuse
> because of it.
>
> BTW, many commentators and preachers say that Scripture is more
> "clear" than nature. But this doesn't fit well with what I see Paul
> saying in Rom 1. I think the better distinction from Ps 19 is that
> Scripture is a more PERSONAL revelation to us than nature. This is
> indicated by the difference in names for God (EL vs. YHWH) in the two
> halves of the Psalm.
>
> Kirk
>
>
> On Feb 3, 2009, at 9:07 AM, <gmurphy10@neo.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > Kirk -
> >
> > As is, I think, pretty well known on this list, I'm dubious about
> > the idea of any "general revelation" that's independent of God's
> > historical revelation in Israel which culminates in Christ. I
> > think what you outline is OK if you emphasize that it is only in
> > the context of that historical ("special" if you wish) revelation
> > that's the content of the 2d part of the psalm that people can have
> > any idea who the God is whose glory is proclaimed by the heavens.
> >
> > It's also worth noting that when Paul quotes Ps.19:4 in Rom.10:18
> > he interprets it as a reference to the proclamation of Christ!
> >
> > Shalom,
> > George
> >
> > ---- Kirk Bertsche <Bertsche@aol.com> wrote:
> >> I was asked to preach on "science" at my church yesterday, a
> >> conservative evangelical congregation. In case it might be useful or
> >> spur ideas for others, below is the general outline of my message,
> >> which was well-received.--Kirk
> >>
> >>
> >> • Nature and God (Ps. 19)
> >> • Theme: A biblical view of nature
> >> Goals for audience:
> >> • see nature as a source of praise to God, reduce fear of
> >> nature/science
> >> • understand differences between biblical and
> >> naturalistic worldviews
> >> • Homiletic Idea: Nature points to God, but nature
> >> is not enough.
> >> •
> >> I: Nature points to God (general revelation)
> >> A) Ps 19:1-6 exegesis
> >> B) Rom 1:18-21 (why man rejects it)
> >> C) How nature points to God
> >> Design (fine tuning)
> >> Existence
> >> Comprehensibility
> >> Beauty
> >> II. Nature depends on God (contingency, immanence)
> >> A) Biblical
> >> suggested in Ps 19:2, 4-6
> >> Ps 104;13-14, 20-21
> >> Heb 1:3; Col. 1:17
> >> B) Laws of nature , miracles: biblical vs naturalistic
> >> views
> >> III. Nature is not enough (special revelation)
> >> A) Naturalism, scientism
> >> B) Ps 19:7-10 (nature not enough to know God)
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >
> >
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Received on Tue Feb 3 15:38:41 2009