Re: [asa] Message: "Nature and God"

George,

Yes, I'm familiar with your views, and I recently re-read your PSCF
article on this topic. You make a strong case. I agree with you
that there are limitations to general revelation.

But in the context of Rom 1:18-21, Paul seems to be speaking of all
mankind, not only those who have special revelation. He says that
the message of general revelation is "clear" and "plain" to them,
that they "knew God", but that they have rejected this revelation.
Paul presents this rejection as universal; so as you say, we probably
should not expect anyone to come to God through it. But on the other
hand, Paul says that it is clear and that man is without excuse
because of it.

BTW, many commentators and preachers say that Scripture is more
"clear" than nature. But this doesn't fit well with what I see Paul
saying in Rom 1. I think the better distinction from Ps 19 is that
Scripture is a more PERSONAL revelation to us than nature. This is
indicated by the difference in names for God (EL vs. YHWH) in the two
halves of the Psalm.

Kirk

On Feb 3, 2009, at 9:07 AM, <gmurphy10@neo.rr.com> wrote:

> Kirk -
>
> As is, I think, pretty well known on this list, I'm dubious about
> the idea of any "general revelation" that's independent of God's
> historical revelation in Israel which culminates in Christ. I
> think what you outline is OK if you emphasize that it is only in
> the context of that historical ("special" if you wish) revelation
> that's the content of the 2d part of the psalm that people can have
> any idea who the God is whose glory is proclaimed by the heavens.
>
> It's also worth noting that when Paul quotes Ps.19:4 in Rom.10:18
> he interprets it as a reference to the proclamation of Christ!
>
> Shalom,
> George
>
> ---- Kirk Bertsche <Bertsche@aol.com> wrote:
>> I was asked to preach on "science" at my church yesterday, a
>> conservative evangelical congregation. In case it might be useful or
>> spur ideas for others, below is the general outline of my message,
>> which was well-received.--Kirk
>>
>>
>> • Nature and God (Ps. 19)
>> • Theme: A biblical view of nature
>> Goals for audience:
>> • see nature as a source of praise to God, reduce fear of
>> nature/science
>> • understand differences between biblical and
>> naturalistic worldviews
>> • Homiletic Idea: Nature points to God, but nature
>> is not enough.
>> •
>> I: Nature points to God (general revelation)
>> A) Ps 19:1-6 exegesis
>> B) Rom 1:18-21 (why man rejects it)
>> C) How nature points to God
>> Design (fine tuning)
>> Existence
>> Comprehensibility
>> Beauty
>> II. Nature depends on God (contingency, immanence)
>> A) Biblical
>> suggested in Ps 19:2, 4-6
>> Ps 104;13-14, 20-21
>> Heb 1:3; Col. 1:17
>> B) Laws of nature , miracles: biblical vs naturalistic
>> views
>> III. Nature is not enough (special revelation)
>> A) Naturalism, scientism
>> B) Ps 19:7-10 (nature not enough to know God)
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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Received on Tue Feb 3 13:49:07 2009