Re: [asa] Conundrum

Actually, on the basis of speech act theory, conundrums like the below make some degree of sense;

If Captain Kirk is correct that everything HM says is a lie, then it makes perfect sense for HM to respond in a manner which attempts to deceive the listener into believing CK is wrong.

So in the broader context HM's saying "I am lying" may be to utter a true proposition, but it is to engage in a deceitful act as it seeks to cast CK as dishonest or misinformed.

Blessings,
Murray

skrogh. wrote:
> Captain Kirk: "Everything Harry Mudd says, is a lie."
>
> Harry Mudd: "I am lying."
>
>
>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I,_Mudd
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liar_paradox
>
>
>
>
> =========================================
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu
>> [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]On Behalf Of Dehler, Bernie
>> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 2:38 PM
>> Cc: ASA
>> Subject: RE: [asa] Conundrum
>>
>>
>> Don said:
>> ""All Cretans are liars" when said by a Cretan."
>>
>> You have to define more what a "liar" is. Does a liar always
>> lie? That means a Cretan, if a liar, can't quote someone else
>> who is true? The fallacy there is that a "liar" always lies every
>> time they open their mouth. Actually, everyone is a liar,
>> because if you tell only one lie in your life you are a liar.
>> Doing one murder makes you a murderer; doing one lie makes you a liar.
>>
>> So this example looks different than that of Dick's example- this
>> one plays with definitions.
>>
>> ...Bernie
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Don Nield [mailto:d.nield@auckland.ac.nz]
>> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 12:26 PM
>> To: Dehler, Bernie
>> Cc: ASA
>> Subject: Re: [asa] Conundrum
>>
>> Bernie:
>> There is also a deeper reason. The statement is self-referential, of the
>> type "All Cretans are liars" when said by a Cretan. Such statements can
>> contain paradoxes. Perhaps the best answer to Dick is that his question
>> is unanswerable. :-)
>> Don
>>
>> Dehler, Bernie wrote:
>>> " and the sentence also flipped from being "false" to "true" in
>> the midst of evaluation."
>>> I mean the sentence changed from false (in the midst of
>> evaluation) to being true (after evaluation was complete).
>>> Summary: Three errors, and the statement is true.
>>>
>>> Actually- the real answer needs more clarification- this is a
>> good example of conflation- conflating logical errors as equal
>> with syntax errors. ... they are all just 'errors,' right?
>> (Wrong.) If you asked how many syntax errors there were, versus
>> how many logical errors, the answer is easy. Two syntax errors,
>> 1 logical error.
>>> ...Bernie
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Dehler, Bernie
>>> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 12:07 PM
>>> Cc: ASA
>>> Subject: RE: [asa] Conundrum
>>>
>>> Error 1: 'ar' should be 'are'
>>> Error 2: 'threee' should be 'three'
>>>
>>> That makes 2 errors. The sentence says there are three errors,
>> which makes that an error, so now there are three errors.
>>> So there are three errors, and the sentence also flipped from
>> being "false" to "true" in the midst of evaluation.
>>> Correct?
>>>
>>> ...Bernie
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu
>> [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of John Walley
>>> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 11:45 AM
>>> To: Dick Fischer; Don Nield
>>> Cc: ASA
>>> Subject: Re: [asa] Conundrum
>>>
>>> I would say there is only one error. The third e is just in the
>> wrong place.
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Don Nield <d.nield@auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: Don Nield <d.nield@auckland.ac.nz>
>>>> Subject: Re: [asa] Conundrum
>>>> To: "Dick Fischer" <dickfischer@verizon.net>
>>>> Cc: "ASA" <asa@calvin.edu>
>>>> Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 12:51 AM
>>>> It depends on how one defines an error, but I would has that
>>>> there are just two spelling errors and the count could be a
>>>> further error, or allowing for self reference might not be
>>>> an error!
>>>> Don
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dick Fischer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> How many mistakes can you find in the following
>>>>>
>>>> sentence:
>>>>
>>>>> "There ar threee errors."
>>>>> Dick Fischer, GPA president
>>>>> Genesis Proclaimed Association
>>>>> "Finding Harmony in Bible, Science and
>>>>>
>>>> History"
>>>>
>>>>> www.genesisproclaimed.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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Received on Fri Nov 21 19:06:12 2008