Re: [asa] Yet again i seek help (Iain s???)

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- ----- Forwarded message from IW <iaincw@hushmail.com> -----

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 04:35:19 +0900 Iain Strachan
<igd.strachan@gmail.com> wrote:
>Iain,
>
>Well, since you twisted my arm ..... ;-)

Flattery is most useful is it not? ;) But seriously - I meant what
i wrote.

 That is, no one has ever seen a cat turn into another
>kind
>> of animal that is new to this planet.

See, one of the issues that I struggle with her relates back this -
Animal X cannot become animal Y. I responded by saying that ok,
lets say that evolutionary process does not happen. And lets say
Death is post-fall...so... It was created as is. So....Were we
created with teeth designed for chewing meat AND veggies, a
digestive
system to break it down? If we were then we must have been eating
dead
things. And if they were not dead when we ate them presumably they
died. Killing other animals involves violence and pain. So....were
we
created that way?

Predators are designed to hunt and kill. If they were created that
way
then death and violence and pain predate the fall. If not then how
did
they make the radical switch from a species that had no hunter
instinct
and no capacity to kill? And if they had no digestive processes
prior
to the fall how on earth did that happen? Did God re-create? We are
not talking minor cosmetic changes here!

>I really don't like the term "random chance" frequently used by
>Creationists in their rhetoric.

BINGO. me either. I asked him the same question - what is random
chance?

Just as your life could end at any moment
(random) God is in control and aware of the when (so not random)and
is not outside the realm of reason -
our ignorance of process does not equal falseness of process. For
example. If I drop a rock down a steep mountain slope
- - - could you predict exactly what path the rock will take, where it
will
bounce, how far and how many bounces it takes etc? No. ergo, it is
random. HOWEVER it will follow the laws of gravity and mathematics
and
with enough time, data and computer power you could work it out. It
is
random within a set of laws. So is evolution. It is not random in
that
it is total chaos roaring along. It is unknowable and unpredictable
because of physical and data limitations - but
not unlawful.

> But it is STILL
>RANDOM.

Bingo.

>My own personal take on it is that in order to understand and
>appreciate light we have to understand darkness. To create a
>world
>where there is no suffering would not give us the perspective of
>appreciation of the good things in life.

Agreed. AND it begs the earlier question - predators and teeth.
Take a T-rex. He does not eat veggies. Pain and suffering either
existed from early on or massive changes happened post fall. You
know - many
people think that human suffering is proof that God does not exist -
 or
at the very least
- - - is not a very nice God. Yet Christians believe otherwise.
Suffering
and Godś love and perfection obviously do co-exist. Also, this
belief
assumes that evolution as a system has remained unchanged since
inception (ironic since that would contradict the very word
'evolution').

>

>I'd better stop there as I've got people coming round. Hope some
>of
>it was useful.

Excellent.

Thanks muchly iain!

Iain

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Received on Thu Nov 20 03:36:57 2008