RE: [asa] Flat Earth in earlier Christendom

Stephen J. Krogh, P.G.
President
The PanTerra Group
environmental consultants and scientists
Dallas, Texas
214.522.5600
http://panterragroup.home.mindspring.com/
=========================================

> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu
> [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]On Behalf Of George Cooper
> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:03 AM
> To: asa@calvin.edu
> Subject: RE: [asa] Flat Earth in earlier Christendom
>
>
> Yes, Daniel was the reference he was thinking about when he erroneously
> referred to Paul in Revelations.
>
> He said that even though it was a "dream" (actually vision) that it can be
> "true only if Earth is flat, or at most a gently curved dish".
>
> He assumes the Biblical view taught that the Earth was flat and round.

Did it teach it as a new revelation, or was the dream merely set in in the
framework of what was the prevailing view of the Cosmos held by the
population at the time. I hope it was the latter.

> He also offered the following:
>
> "take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it" (Job
> 38:12-13),
> which negates the idea of a spherical Earth.

True, being one of the oldest writings if not the oldest, it's not
surprising since it was a prevailing view.

> And he quotes Matt 4: 1-12 "The devil taketh him up into an exceeding high
> mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of
> them", and states, "Nobody who knew Earth was a sphere would write this.
> It's geographically ignorant".

> Any arguments used to counter his opinion is considered by him as
> revisionists attempts that are taking advantage of "450 years of
> hindsight".
> He's a bit incorrigible.

A bit.

> At this point I think he's not that interested in this as
> religion is not of
> any real interest to him. [I would argue that this is not quite
> true as he
> speaks publicly against the viability of God, and in the presence of
> Dawkins.]
>
> As a last effort to sway him, perhaps a list of prominent scholars and
> theologians, along with quotes, of the 16th century that demonstrate their
> conviction for a spherical Earth might make a difference, otherwise I can
> think of no other argument he might respect.
>
>
> Coope

Sway him of what? That the Bible *taught* a spherical earth? Their
convictions of a spherical earth were not revealed from scripture, were
they? Respect in that sense would hardly be warranted, would it? Maybe
citing actual scriptures would be more effective.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
> Behalf Of skrogh.
> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 11:19 PM
> To: ASA
> Subject: RE: [asa] Flat Earth in earlier Christendom
>
>
> Daniel 4:10-11. In Daniel, the king "saw a tree of great height at the
> centre of the earth...reaching with its top to the sky and visible to the
> earth's farthest bounds."
>
> The question is not about this verse *teaching* a Flat Earth, as
> say a tenet
> of scripture. But rather, why would vision of a setting that could only
> occur in a flat earth model, be used in the first place? It is not
> surprising at all considering ANE Cosmologies that people already
> believed.
> It is this model of cosmos and the earth that makes the description of
> seeing the tree at the center of the Earth from its farthest bounds makes
> actual sense.
>
> http://home.messiah.edu/~kbauer/
>
>
> =========================================
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]On
> Behalf Of George Cooper
> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 8:56 PM
> To: ASA
> Subject: Re: [asa] Flat Earth in earlier Christendom
>
>
> Thanks Gordon
>
> Ah ha! The Daniel verse is a close match to the idea of climbing a tall
> tree to see the edge of the Earth, but it was a vision (per verse 10) and
> hardly justifies the claim by anyone that the Bible is advocating a flat
> Earth.
>
>
> Coope
>
>
>
>
>
> From: gordon brown <Gordon.Brown@Colorado.EDU>
> To: asa@calvin.edu
> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 6:10:21 PM
> Subject: RE: [asa] Flat Earth in earlier Christendom
>
> Maybe he has heard of what Nebuchadnezzar said in Daniel 4:11 about what
> he had dreamed. See also Matthew 4:8.
>
> Gordon Brown (ASA member)
>
>
> On Wed, 12 Nov 2008, George Cooper wrote:
>
> > Anyone know the answer to the other question posed?
> >
> >
> >
> > "He [the astrophysicist] also claims the Bible says Paul in Revelations
> > (ha!) climbed a tall tree and saw the edges of the Earth. Is there any
> > related verse about this?"
> >
> >
> >
> > Coope
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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Received on Thu Nov 13 12:10:38 2008