Re: sacraments as means of grace (was Re: [asa] Pregnancy & Communio)

Hi Layman Coope, ;)

Just 2 cents? How do you SB's live on 20c a week? :p

Just to make very clear (in case I need to?), when "our" doctrinal statement says baptism is a means of grace that DOESN'T mean one has to be baptised to be saved.

Rather the common view (by which I mean the view that my fellow Victorian Baptists express to me in our various discussions on such matters) is that baptism is "helpful" - that one obtains some genuine spiritual benefit from it. And as this benefit comes from God, then it is by definition a gift of grace. And, voila, Baptism is seen as a means of grace. Something similar is said of the Lord's Supper.

All of which merely underlines the original point of citing our doctrinal statement - one can be BOTH a "symbol only" sacramentalist and STILL claim the sacraments are "a means of grace" - what one is really affirming is the priority of faith in making sacraments efficacious. But, of course, faith is a gift of grace too!

In getting back to Christine's original question, then, I think we need to appreciate that the sacraments bring together faith and action. It's not as if the presence of faith makes the sacraments of no value. Quite the opposite. It's the enacting of the sacraments which literally gives substance to faith. It's when there's no faith to which to give substance, no faith to "act" out, that the sacraments reduce to mere ritual. In this context it's simply wrong to speak of the sacraments as "symbol only" because - even if one rejects the idea that something "magic" happens in the sacraments - the sacrament is ALSO a concrete expression of faith.

In this respect, the Lord's Supper is far more than simply eating bread and drinking wine. It arises out of faith and gives expression to faith. And even if it is "only" a symbol, we encounter the symbol from the perspective of faith - and through the working of the Holy Spirit it brings to our remembrance the reality of God's saving acts in Christ, and that remembrance is itself a means of grace.

So for all of us, regardless of our theological formulations, the sacraments are effectively a means of grace even if the connection between symbol and grace is seen as standing in somewhat remote connection.

This suggests one helpful way of approaching Christine's original question for we have to recognize that the foetus doesn't actually ENACT the sacrament. So even IF the chemical substances obtained from the sacral elements are passed from mother to foetus (and there's clear scientific question as to whether this is indeed the case) neverthless the foetus doesn't ENACT the Lord's Supper and so doesn't actually partake IN the sacrament. So quite apart from the lack of faith on the part of the foetus, there is ALSO the question of lack of ACTION. The foetus neither comes with faith nor acts from faith - and being that the sacraments are ACTS then I don't see how the mother's actions (whether being baptized or partaking of the Lord's Supper) can be seen as having bearing upon the spiritual standing of the foetus whatsoever.

Blessings,
Murray

George Cooper wrote:
> As a Southern Baptist, allow my 2 cents...
>
> I know of no SB churches that would suggest works of any kind is a means to
> salvation, including the ordinances of Baptism and the Lord's Supper.
> Nevertheless, Baptism is required for church membership, but we believe it
> is only an expression of faith and not essential to salvation itself. I
> think most, but not all, SB churches allow any visitor to join with the
> membership in receiving the Lord's Supper but are asked to do so as
> believers, though no one is questioned on this point.
>
> Regarding the following,
> <cite>Christian Baptism, by which is meant the immersion of believers as
> instituted by our Lord, is a personal, public confession of the believer's
> identification with Christ, AND ALSO AS A MEANS OF GRACE TO THE CHRISTIAN.
> (emphasis added)
> </cite>
>
> Confession can be considered an essential element and a means (along with
> belief, of course) for salvation (Rm 10:9). I suspect they may be using
> the context that confession is made manifest in baptism and that baptism
> itself serves this purpose. Since there are other ways to confess Christ,
> however, baptism is not considered a requirement for salvation.
>
> Layman Coope

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Received on Thu Nov 6 14:53:12 2008