He didn't provide a label. But I think it is fair to say he outright rejects
the evolution-as-a-secondary-cause view that, to me at least, defines
theistic evolution. I think in his view God knew that evolution would
succeed in producing intelligence, and God just waited until a sufficiently
advanced species appeared. Lucky for us, it was the human species.
David Heddle
Associate Professor of Physics
Christopher Newport University, &
The Thomas Jefferson National Accelerator Facility
On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 3:37 PM, David Opderbeck <dopderbeck@gmail.com>
wrote:
> What does Miller call himself then?
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 3:33 PM, David Heddle <heddle@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dembski is "sort of" going after TEs yet again:
>>
>>
>> http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/theoevo-vs-id-hey-who-started-this-anyway/
>>
>> But not really, because at the 99% level he is going after Ken Miller. I
>> talked with Miller not long ago. He said (paraphrasing) "Even my friends
>> call me a theistic evolutionist, *but I am not a theistic evolutionist*."
>>
>>
>> So Dembski is bashing TEs—by using quotes from Miller—who by his own words
>> is *not* a TE. It makes no sense.
>>
>>
>> David Heddle
>> Associate Professor of Physics
>> Christopher Newport University, &
>> The Thomas Jefferson National Accelerator Facility
>>
>> http://helives.blogspot.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 10:03 AM, David Opderbeck <dopderbeck@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Right. We all know that the history of "war" in the Church is long,
>>> sordid and sad. Sigh.
>>>
>>> As to name calling here -- yes its different because it's not a major
>>> "movement" website and the name-callers weren't public figures. It's also
>>> significantly different because when I complained to the ASA leadership,
>>> they reprimanded the person and there were both public apologies and private
>>> reconciliation.
>>>
>>> I don't often agree with Ed Brayton, but he's spot on about this one,
>>> unfortunately:
>>> http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2008/06/dembskis_latest_silliness_1.p
>>> hp#more
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 11:32 PM, Stephen Matheson <smatheso@calvin.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> David O. asks:
>>>> "What I don't understand is, why respond this way? Why not let a soft
>>>> answer turn away wrath?"
>>>>
>>>> I assume that David is referring to the disturbing words of Bill
>>>> Dembski. And I think the answer to David's question is very clear. Indeed,
>>>> I don't think Dembski left any doubt. If the question is "why not let a
>>>> soft answer turn away wrath?" the answer is "because WAR IS THE GOAL." In
>>>> fact, Dembski's crazed rage is so unrelated to the actual words to which he
>>>> is "responding" that I think it's reasonable to assume that he wants nothing
>>>> more than an "ugly war" and is willing to set aside both rudimentary ethics
>>>> and basic reason in that wicked pursuit.
>>>>
>>>> How sad that the regular defenders of ID on this listserv haven't
>>>> stepped forward to condemn Dembski's virulent speech. It's not too late,
>>>> and now is the time. I'm afraid that Bill Dembski is beyond our help, but
>>>> those who might look to the ASA for leadership/guidance on how to discuss
>>>> design and natural explanation, in the context of Christian unity and
>>>> devotion to the Creator, can be expected to carefully observe our response
>>>> to the viciousness of his rhetoric.
>>>>
>>>> For Christ's sake, let's make it clear that Dembski's behavior is the
>>>> antithesis of the ASA's basic values, and that no matter what we might think
>>>> of the proposals of the ID movement, we will never countenance such
>>>> destructively malicious conduct in the Lord's name.
>>>>
>>>> Steve Matheson
>>>>
>>>> P.S. David, I'm sorry that you've been called names here, and if I'd
>>>> been here I would have strongly condemned it. But we're in a different
>>>> galaxy here, don't you think?
>>>>
>>>> >>> "David Opderbeck" <dopderbeck@gmail.com> 06/15/08 7:33 PM >>>
>>>> What I don't understand is, why respond this way? Why not let a soft
>>>> answer
>>>> turn away wrath? The LAST thing the Church needs is an additional ugly
>>>> war
>>>> between two "camps" that really have more in common than not at the end
>>>> of
>>>> the day.
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 6:45 PM, Dave Wallace <
>>>> wmdavid.wallace@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/theistic-evolutionists-close-ranks-let-the-bloodletting-begin/
>>>> >
>>>> > Quote from Dembski:
>>>> >
>>>> > You know, I would be happy to sit down with theistic evolutionists and
>>>> > discuss our differences. I think they are wrong to baptize Darwin's
>>>> theory
>>>> > as God's mode of creation. But I don't think they are immoral or
>>>> > un-Christian for holding their views.
>>>> >
>>>> > It seems to me that in earlier parts of his posting he did question or
>>>> come
>>>> > close to questioning the faith of ECs. Did not people like Ted, Rich
>>>> and
>>>> > other try to have a dialogue a few years back on UCD and get booted
>>>> and had
>>>> > their Christianity doubted, or am I becoming senile. Miller may well
>>>> have
>>>> > gone too far in his attack on ID but Dembski's taring all of us the
>>>> way he
>>>> > does seems very unfair.
>>>> > Could someone please explain how if ID is supposed to be religiously
>>>> > neutral, this post belongs on UcD.
>>>> > Dave W (ASA member)
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
>>>> > "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> David W. Opderbeck
>>>> Associate Professor of Law
>>>> Seton Hall University Law School
>>>> Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> David W. Opderbeck
>>> Associate Professor of Law
>>> Seton Hall University Law School
>>> Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> David W. Opderbeck
> Associate Professor of Law
> Seton Hall University Law School
> Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology
>
To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
Received on Tue Jun 17 15:52:24 2008
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Tue Jun 17 2008 - 15:52:24 EDT