Re: [asa] ID- has nothing to do with God?

Bernie,

You have a good point. How can a Christian organization, such as the ASA,
whose purpose it is to ponder the interface between science and religion,
fail to commit the very same error? Even when discussing the price of crude
oil?

I have difficulty with the entire subject of the interface between science
and theology. But doesnt the arrow go both ways? How can science speak (or
pretend to speak) to the subject of religion?
I've always wanted to say "the least theology the better". But then how can
one get folks who claim to be secular to *stop* making statements about
theology and stop making various statements that impact religion?

Can there be a completely secular group that speaks to religion and
ultimate causes and then *not* impact religion?

But ID proponents aren't the only problematical belief systems floating
around.

For example, consider Mike Zimmerman's petition with the signatures of
10,000 ministers. It is allegedly just a statement on science, but one
wonders why have minister's sign instead, of say, cab drivers, bakers, or
bankers if a secular view is the point and if theology isn't the point. I
might be wrong, but I take the point of the petition to be that the
religion, and let me put emphasis on "religion", of the signers is being
touted and promoted. And this religion is allegedly a form of
Christianity, or Christian theology, which incorporates evolution (whatever
evolution means - and please lets just leave that free wheeling and not
argue about what it might mean). This seems significant to me. It became
obvious to me it goes hand in hand with the idea that methodlogical
naturalism is a modern theologically derived concept - meaning it is being
endorsed by many religious people for purely religious purposes. You can
tell from the petition there is an unspoken assumption that naturalism
(methodological or otherwise) is compatable with Christianity in the
minds of the signers. That doesn't bother nearly as much as this
assumption being silent and unspoken.

Let me boil it down to this: Is it possible to discuss origins and not
impact religion? Can any person make a statement about origins that has
zero impact on ultimate matters? Can any person be totally secular and
address origins in a way that doesn't impact religion?

If the answer is yes, then it seems to me its possible for there to be
criteria by which groups (such as various factions of the ID movement Bernie
is concerned about) could be evaluated for impact on religion. And
this criteria could be applied to both pro-ID and anti-ID groups. How
many anti-ID groups are out there that are really doing religion in
disguise? Isn't it true that to make a claim that all (or most) such
groups are *not* doing religion in disguise would somehow require some
sort of objective criteria for being secular but not having impact on
religion?

Sorry - I am being interrupted and must go - but it isn't obvious to me
that the issue is ever the beliefs of the advocates of an idea versus the
impact of their ideas. It may not be either-or. But it surely cannot be
the first while the second is completely ignored.

Best Regards,
David Clounch

On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Dehler, Bernie <bernie.dehler@intel.com>
wrote:

> The ID movement is confusing. They go out of their way to claim it has
> nothing to do with religion… and now comes their conference on theology! If
> they aren't a Christian group, how can they speak on theology??? I think
> they lost their agenda… are they floundering now?
>
>
>
> From my inbox:
>
>
>
> From: Discovery Institute info@discovery.org
>
>
>
> "Is Intelligent Design Bad Theology?"
>
>
> *CSC Fellow Dr. Jack Collins*
>
>
>
> Thursday, May 22, 4:30 - 6:00 p.m.
>
>
>
> Discovery Institute
> 208 Columbia Street
> Seattle, Washington 98104
>
>
>
> The International Society for Science and Religion (ISSR), a consortiun of
> scientists, philosophers, and theologians based in Cambridge, has stated
> that "intelligent design is neither sound science nor good theology." The
> scientifc status of intelligent design explanations has been ably defended
> by ID scientists and philosophers, so our attention will focus on the
> theological claim. The basis for asserting that ID is bad theology is not
> always clear, but seems to rest on the view that ID promotes a faulty
> conception of God's relationship with the world. We will examine various
> interpretations of this claim and find all of them wanting: to the contrary,
> ID is not only sound science, but can be very good theology.
>
> Jack Collins is Professor of Old Testament at Covenant Theological
> Seminary, St. Louis, where he teaches courses as diverse as Hebrew exegesis
> and Science and Theology. He received his Ph.D. in Hebrew language at the
> University of Liverpool, England. He also has an M.Div. from Faith
> Evangelical Lutheran Seminary and a S.B. and S.M. from Massachusetts
> Institute of Technology. He is the author of *Science and Faith: Friends
> or Foes?* (Crossway Books, 2003). Collins was Old Testament Chairman for
> the English Standard Version of the Bible, and is Old Testament Editor for
> the forthcoming English Standard Version Study Bible. He is an ordained
> minister in the Presbyterian Church in America.
>
> The event will be held in our Seattle headquarters, located at *208
> Columbia Street* in *downtown Seattle* from *4:30 - 6:00 p.m.* A
> selection of regional wines and cheeses will be provided. Though we cannot
> validate, parking is available in the Millennium Tower Garage (719 2nd
> Avenue - entrance on Columbia). Should you choose to park elsewhere, please
> verify the garage hours as many of the adjacent parking lots in our
> neighborhood close at 6:00 p.m. Our new location is also metro accessible.
>
> To *RSVP*, please contact Mollie Tschida at (206) 292-0401 ext. 111, or
> email at molliet@discovery.org Suggested donation is $10.
>
> *When:*
>
>
>
> May 22, 2008
> 4:30 - 6:00 p.m.
>
> Where:
>
>
>
> Discovery Institute
> 208 Columbia Street
> Seattle, Washington 98498
>
> Cost:
>
>
>
> Free
>
> Speaker:
>
>
>
> Dr. Jack Collins
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Received on Sun Jun 15 22:53:01 2008