Re: [asa] God, Chance and Purpose

At 11:23 AM 6/9/2008, Kirk Bertsche wrote:
>I would suggest that this would not negate "free will", but would
>only show that someone's "free will" is predictable.
>
>Our definition and understanding of "free will" is crucial to
>discussions like these, and is often not well defined. There are a
>number of different understandings in Christendom and in culture. I
>believe Erasmus' view involved some idea of arbitrariness or ability
>to make contrary choice, and Luther argued against this in "Bondage
>of the Will" (maybe George Murphy can add some insight
>here?) Perhaps a good definition might be "the ability to choose as
>one desires". But this implies that one's desires may restrict the
>free choices that he will actually make, and that one's free choice
>may well be predictable by someone who understands his desires.
>
>Kirk

Interesting. To me predictable free will is an oxymoron. "the ability
to choose as one desires" would turn into a useless tautology pretty
soon IMHO. I have been taking Erasmus' view for granted I am afraid.
How can a person have free will if they are incapable of making an
arbitrary or contrary choice? It doesn't make sense.

>On Jun 7, 2008, at 6:37 PM, Brian Harper wrote:
>
>>At 05:29 PM 6/6/2008, Kirk Bertsche wrote:
>>>FYI, this is essentially the same analogy that Millard Erickson
>>>uses in his "Christian Theology" (except he uses chocolate cake vs
>>>liver and onions). His point, like David's, is that God can know
>>>us well enough to be certain of what we will choose even though we
>>>have a completely free choice.
>>>
>>>Kirk
>>
>>Okay, let me propose a thought experiment. Suppose you and I got
>>together and observed David over a long period of time. We took our
>>observations and, with the help of a developed model and a super
>>computer, were able predict every thing that David did. What he ate
>>for breakfast, what color shirt he wore on Tuesday etc. etc. What
>>would you conclude about David? That he has free will?
>
>=

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Received on Mon Jun 9 15:50:24 2008