RE: [asa] The God hypothesis- a test

It seems to me that a God test nullifies the need for faith and so such tests are nonexistent. It is a bit like wanting experimentally to violate Heisenberg's uncertainly principle.

 
Moorad

________________________________

From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu on behalf of Dehler, Bernie
Sent: Fri 5/16/2008 10:24 AM
To: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: RE: [asa] The God hypothesis- a test

So RC, suppose you were able to hand-pick the test groups. Group 1 was
Christians, trained in prayer as you suggest. Group 2 is avowed
atheists. Group 3 is a control group mixed with unknown people. Do you
think you could conduct a test to show that God is real because he
answers pray, even sometimes, and show it statistically?

Also, if you could do such a test, would it displease God? Jesus said
"don't put the Lord your God to the test" when tested by Satan in the
desert. But in Malachi God says "test me in this..." in regards to
tithing; and in Isaiah he mocks those who are superstitious and says
"come let us reason together." My atheist friend said something
interesting, that God doesn't want to be tested because He's not there,
and a test would prove it. Would God be insulted or displeased in a
test of his existence? By the way, people who debate and show evidence
of God using logic, such as William Lane Craig and others (like CS
Lewis), isn't that a way of "testing God" to see if He holds water
logically? The assumption is that if God didn't pass "logical tests"
then He wouldn't be worth believing in, like the invisible pink unicorn
or the flying spaghetti monster.

-----Original Message-----
From: RC Metcalf [mailto:rcmetcalf@thinkagain.us]
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 6:19 AM
To: Dehler, Bernie; asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] The God hypothesis- a test

I have yet to see a scientific test designed to study the efficacy of
prayer
that is able to control all outside factors. I don't think such a test
is
possible, which is why I think testing for God's existence from
sociobiologic prayer studies is misguided. There are other, more
reasonable, methods of testing for God's existence.

If you consider the biblical criteria for prayer suggested by the late
19th
century Princeton theologian Charles Hodge, the inadequacy of prayer
studies
becomes self evident. Hodge said effective payer must exhibit:

1. Sincerity
2. Reverence
3. Humility
4. Importunity
5. Submission
6. Faith
7. Asking in the name of Christ

Dawkins, Harris and Stenger all cite the same prayer study in their
books.
If I recall accurately, that study had people in various cities in the
country pray for people they didn't know, except by first name. Even if

every other factor existed, I submit that it is impossible to pray with
sincerity and importunity under such circumstances. I think many modern

Christians have adopted a more lackadaisical approach to prayer than we
ought, hence we aren't as apt to recognize the importance of importunity
in
our prayer life unless we're thrown into the middle of a dire situation
and
the target of our prayers is someone dear to us.

Blessings,
RC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dehler, Bernie" <bernie.dehler@intel.com>
To: <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 11:24 PM
Subject: [asa] The God hypothesis- a test

Hi all-

 A scientific question about God. Is it possible to test for the
existence of the Christian God? Here's a scenario.

Hypothesis: Those who are born-again Christians are born of the Spirit
and have a new relationship with God. They can pray to God, and God
will sometimes answer their prayers.

Test: Take two groups. One group has self-identified born-again
Christians, the other are self-described atheists. Both groups
write-down their goals (career, medical needs, etc.) The Christian prays
for their needs, while the atheist doesn't. Then see if there is a
statistical difference. (This is a broad outline; a real test would
have much tighter rules and controls.)

If God exists, wouldn't this "catch Him in the act?" Is this a valid
test and hypothesis? I'm vaguely aware that some have actually tried
such a hypothesis/test (similar) and saw no statistical difference. If
there's no difference between the groups, does that mean that either God
doesn't exist, or God doesn't care (as Jesus taught that God our father
cares for us)?

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Received on Fri May 16 12:57:09 2008