Re: [asa] A case of non-biological ID

Gregory,

Yes, CSL's works make most enjoyable and informative reading.

Concerning the title of this thread: just as the intricacies of, let us say, the blood-clotting cascade strongly suggest the prior activity of a Designer, so too does the choice of the 8 positive integers which confront us when we begin reading the Bible's opening Hebrew words - for we meet this set (or one or more of its attributes) again, [1] in the principal Greek form of the Creator's Name, [2] in Revelation 13:18, [3] in the structure of DNA and, [4] in two abundant human artefacts (the keyboard and the standard A4.sheet of cut paper).

In respect of its early biblical manifestation, we marvel that the Author of this Book has been able to speak into being an intricate structure of coordinated numerical geometries, clothed in a powerful, meaningful and fundamental assertion. And let us observe that in so doing He has targeted the _first_ of its 31,102 verses!

I have written extensively of these mysteries - and my claims concerning them - in the pages of my websites. But here are some specific links which you might wish to follow:

For the keyboard matter: "The Music Lesson" (http://www.whatabeginning.com/Music/M_Lesson.htm)

For the A4 matter: "Paper-folding for Beginners" (http://www.whatabeginning.com/A4/Origami/P.htm)

For the DNA matter: "Revelations of a Biological Abacus" (http://www.whatabeginning.com/Misc/Genetics/Genetics_VS.htm)

For the remainder: "An Obligation Declined" (http://www.whatabeginning.com/ObDec.htm)

                            "The Beginning of Wonders" (http://www.whatabeginning.com/Misc/Wonders/P.htm)

Gregory, I trust you will now see why I chose as my subject heading "A case of non-biological ID". However, please write again if you think some further explanation is called for.

With all good wishes,

Vernon

www.otherbiblecode.com

www.whatabeginning.com

----- Original Message -----

  From: Gregory Arago
  To: Vernon Jenkins ; j burg
  Cc: asa@calvin.edu
  Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 11:50 AM
  Subject: Re: [asa] A case of non-biological ID

  Vernon, Thanks for the texts, which I find interesting and challenging.

  I'm curious still about the title of this thread and what you meant by it. Do you call what you see an example of 'non-biological ID' or would you be willing to put a positive rather than a mere negative label (i.e. not-something else) on it? Can what you see be called 'linguistic ID' or is that going too far (or not far enough)?

  G.A.

  Vernon Jenkins <vernon.jenkins@virgin.net> wrote:
    John,
    Since last writing I have again read C.S.Lewis's Fern-seed and Elephants *. As you may already know, this takes the form of a reasoned response to the claims of the demythologizers - foremost among whom are your preferred authorities Bultmann and Tillich. Your stance concerning the achievements of these men is so markedly different from my own that I thought it appropriate to introduce a few of the opinions of this notable Christian apologist.
    Describing himself as 'a sheep, telling shepherds what only a sheep can tell them', CSL begins by reminding the shepherds that the sheep fall into two broad groups: 'the uneducated, and those who are educated in some way but not in your (the shepherds') way.' Concerning the first group, he suggests that it would hardly do for those shepherds holding views like Bultmann's or Tillich's to tell them what they really believe, viz.
    "A theology which denies the historicity of nearly everything in the Gospels to which Christian life and affections and thought have been fastened for nearly two millenia - which either denies the miraculous altogether or, more strangely, after swallowing the camel of the Resurrection strains at such gnats as the feeding of the multitudes."
    CSL believes that most liberal priests, faced with this problem, "have recalled from its grave the late medieval conception of two truths: a picture-truth which can be preached to the people, and an esoteric truth for use among the clergy."
    Speaking as a member of the second group - educated, but not theologically educated - CSL writes:
    "The undermining of the old orthodoxy has been mainly the work of divines engaged in New Testament Criticism. The authority of experts in that discipline is the authority in deference to whom we are asked to give up a huge mass of beliefs shared in common by the early Church, the Fathers, the Middle Ages, the Reformers, and even the nineteenth century."
    He is skeptical about this authority: "...whatever these men may be as Biblical critics, I distrust them as critics. They seem to me to lack literary judgement, to be imperceptive about the very quality of the texts they are reading...If he tells me that something in a Gospel is legend or romance, I want to know how many legends and romances he has read, how well his palate is trained in detecting them by the flavour; not how many years he has spent on that Gospel."
    Citing a number of examples from Bultmann's writings, he concludes "These men ask me to believe they can read between the lines of the old texts; the evidence is their obvious inability to read (in any sense worth discussing) the lines themselves. They claim to see fern-seed and can't see an elephant ten yards away in broad daylight."
    Again, he finds in these higher critics a constant use of the principle that the miraculous does not occur. "Thus any statement put into our Lord's mouth by the old texts, which, if he had really made it, would constitute a prediction of the future, is taken to have been put in after the occurrence which it seemed to predict."
    Of course, if we know that inspired prediction can never occur, or that the miraculous is impossible, then this is a sensible position to take. But as CSL points out, whether the miraculous is possible is a philosophical question. "Scholars, as scholars, speak on it with no more authority than anyone else."
    Yet another matter that concerns CSL is the critic's attempts to reconstruct the genesis of the texts he studies. Carried out with immense erudition and great ingenuity this, at first sight, may be very convincing. However, as CSL points out, he has watched reviewers reconstructing the genesis of his own books in just this way - and has usually found them to be wrong!
    I conclude with one final quote from this fascinating and hard-hitting address: "Once the layman was anxious to hide the fact that he believed so much less than the vicar: he now tends to hide the fact that he believes so much more. Missionary to the priest of one's own church is an embarrassing role..."
    John, I trust you will find these extracts from CS Lewis's work both interesting and challenging - and invite your comments.
    Vernon
    www.otherbiblecode.com
    www.whatabeginning.com
    * 'Fern-seed and Elephants' was read to the students of Westcott House. a theological college at Cambridge, on 11 May 1959, and was published under the title 'Modern Theology and Biblical Criticism' in Christian Reflections.

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Received on Wed Jan 23 16:47:19 2008