RE: [asa] yec clain (flood and oil)

Don said:
"The problem with trying to account for the world's sedimentary deposits
in terms of a single massive flood, however, is that the mechanism is so
astoundingly preposterous that it would require very large numbers of
divine miracles, none of which would have an obvious connection to that
plan of salvation. "

Wait a minute. What exactly is the YEC claim? Is it that the oil
deposits were formed by the flood (natural outcome of the flood), by
miracle, or by both? If miracle had a part to play, for what purpose...
just so we could have fuel? If so, God should have told someone, so
they could have discovered it sooner. But maybe God wanted to see how
long it would take for us to figure it out... after all, he doesn't have
TV shows to watch, so we are his entertainment.

It seems to me that if there was really a worldwide flood, there would
be evidence. Apparently, there's no significant evidence for the flood
(but evidence against it)... unless you figure in the actual ark that is
on Mt. Ararat but forbidden for people to see...

...Bernie

________________________________

From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
Behalf Of Don Winterstein
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 6:49 AM
To: D. F. Siemens, Jr.
Cc: asa
Subject: Re: [asa] yec clain

You're right; I made the mistake of beating dead horses again.

Mind you, I'm not averse to a few miracles here and there, especially
when they can be seen to be connected in some way with God's "plan of
salvation." The problem with trying to account for the world's
sedimentary deposits in terms of a single massive flood, however, is
that the mechanism is so astoundingly preposterous that it would require
very large numbers of divine miracles, none of which would have an
obvious connection to that plan of salvation.

In my spare time I started estimating the number of miracles required to
get a single massive flood to account for the geologic column. I was
getting into large multiples of Avogadro's number when I realized that
several kinds of my miracles should be lumped together as single
miracles. Even so, millions of miracles would still be required. For
example, it's not enough to get trilobite fossils into Paleozoic
formations; one must also arrange to have the earlier trilobites in the
earliest rocks and the later ones in the later rocks. Same for
crinoids, brachiopods, etc., etc. Then it's not enough to do this for
one sedimentary basin; it's got to be done for all relevant basins of
the world. Since we're not talking about natural processes here,
sorting these fossils would have to be done independently for each
basin, leading to designation as separate miracles.

But enough time wasted on dead horses. If millions of miracles are what
it takes to keep God from telling lies in Scripture, then millions of
miracles we will have.

: )

Don

        ----- Original Message -----

        From: D. F. Siemens, Jr. <mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com>

        To: dfwinterstein@msn.com

        Cc: asa@calvin.edu ; hossradbourne@gmail.com

        Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 8:50 PM

        Subject: Re: [asa] yec clain

        Don,

        You've been reasoning, like the disciples before the feeding of
the 5000 and 4000. All you need is a miracle.

        Dave

        On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 16:50:02 -0800 "Don Winterstein"
<dfwinterstein@msn.com> writes:

                What we do know is that nature destroys (leaks to the
surface, etc.) far more of the oil it creates than it preserves. It's
extremely inefficient. We also know that most of the world's oil comes
from marine organisms such as phytoplankton.

                So how can the bulk of all organic material that exists
at a single moment (Flood time) give us the huge volumes of preserved
oil _and_ the huge volumes of preserved coal that we know exist/have
existed? To replace 14% of the annual US gasoline consumption would
require converting all of the corn produced annually in the US into
ethanol in the most efficient way humans know. Every year.

                See how great a miracle the Flood was: it converted
Flood biomass into such huge preserved volumes of coal and oil! If we
were to do the numbers, that would make the multiplication implied in
the loaves and fishes miracle look puny by comparison. God by
destroying life off the face of the earth actually did us all a huge
favor and gave nations great wealth.

                : )

                Don

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Received on Thu Nov 29 16:13:39 2007