RE: [asa] E.O. Wilson "Baptist No More"

I posted part of the original message to my Southern Baptist Sunday
School class. This was the response from the class leader, a truly nice
guy, a devout Christian, and someone I genuinely like and respect:

Dick,

I read the attached message.

I just want to say that I do not accept or agree with Science in regards
to

Christianity.

I accept God's word as inerrant in its entirety from Genesis to
Revelation.

I want to first reference: Revelations 22: 18 & 19 (NASB) (18) "I
testify

to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone
adds

to them, God will add to him the Plagues which are written in this
book; (19)

and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy,
God

will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city,
which are

written in this book."

2nd reference II Timothy 3: 16 & 17 (NASB) (16) "All Scripture is
inspired

by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for
training

in righteousness; (17) so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped
for

eery good work.

Also, one very important point in Hebrews 11:6 (NASB) "And without faith
it

is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that
He is

and that He is a re-warder of those who seek Him."

Also, by faith we must accept the POWER of God.

Having said this Dick I just want to say, please do not be sending out
false

doctrine. I will not be discussing this any further. As I said earlier
I

truly believe and accept God's word as being inspired by the Holy
Spirit.

You are welcome in class just don't be trying to lead anyone astray.

            --------------------

Any comments any of you would care for me to forward to him?

Dick Fischer

Dick Fischer, Genesis Proclaimed Association

Finding Harmony in Bible, Science, and History

 <http://www.genesisproclaimed.org/> www.genesisproclaimed.org

-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
Behalf Of George Murphy
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 10:40 AM
To: Alexanian, Moorad; ASA list
Subject: Re: [asa] E.O. Wilson "Baptist No More"

Moorad -

Perhaps I should have expressed myself more fully & stated the basic
question in 2 parts: (1) Whether scientific knowledge of the world
should inform our theology? (2) If so, how should science inform
theology? & the 2d question can be broken down into (2a) What is the
general relationship between contributions of the sciences to the whole
of Christian theology? & (2b) How do specific scientific results
contribute to particular theological loci?

My own answers, in ultra-brief, are:

(1) Yes, because theology deals with the same world that science studies
- though it isn't limited to that.

(2a) While science requires no theological input in order to study the
world (methodological naturalism), the knowledge it gains has
theological value only when placed in the context of God's revelation in
history &, in particular, the cross-resurrection event.

(2b) My essay in the Fall 2007 issue of Dialog, "Science as Goad and
Guide for Theology," goes into some detail on specifics. This whole
issue of the journal is devoted to the theme "The role of science within
theology," with a wide variety of responses by theologians & scientists.

As I think I've explained previously here, I don't think the distinction
between "experimental" and "historical" sciences is fundamental or of
great importance for theology.

Shalom
George
http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/

----- Original Message -----

From: Alexanian, Moorad <mailto:alexanian@uncw.edu>

To: George Murphy <mailto:gmurphy@raex.com> ; ASA list
<mailto:asa@calvin.edu>

Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 9:09 AM

Subject: RE: [asa] E.O. Wilson "Baptist No More"

George,

We must qualify what we mean by "scientific knowledge." If I understand
by that term results obtained by the experimental sciences, then that
kind of knowledge has very little to do with our theology. Therefore,
there is no conflict whatsoever between, say, the Christian faith and
the results of experimental science. Of course, one may infer a Creator
from the fact that things do exist and His rationality by the heavy
mathematics that is needed to develop the laws of Nature. The
historical aspect of the historical sciences gives rise to potential
conflicts. Everyone must scrutinize the assumptions that are being made,
especially in the analysis of unique, past events.

Moorad

  _____

From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
Behalf Of George Murphy
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 7:12 PM
To: ASA list
Subject: Re: [asa] E.O. Wilson "Baptist No More"

God's action in the world is indeed one of the major issues in
science-theology dialogue but it isn't the only one. The question of
how scientific knowledge of the world should inform our theology is, if
anything, even more fundamental.

Shalom
George
http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/

----- Original Message -----

From: Alexanian, Moorad <mailto:alexanian@uncw.edu>

To: George Murphy <mailto:gmurphy@raex.com> ; David Opderbeck
<mailto:dopderbeck@gmail.com> ; John <mailto:john_walley@yahoo.com>
Walley

Cc: _American Sci Affil <mailto:asa@calvin.edu>

Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 3:45 PM

Subject: RE: [asa] E.O. Wilson "Baptist No More"

George, does it not boil down always to the question of how God
interacts with His creation, which is the apex of all
theological/philosophical questions?

Moorad

  _____

From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
Behalf Of George Murphy
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 3:23 PM
To: David Opderbeck; John Walley
Cc: _American Sci Affil
Subject: Re: [asa] E.O. Wilson "Baptist No More"

Of course it's not just "Church: bad; Wilson: innocent." But our
concern should not just be to absolve the church from blame. Churches
in general haven't done a very good job over the past few centuries of
dealing with issues raised by science and technology - especially
biological evolution. Even "liberal" churches in which most clergy have
no problem with evolution usually haven't said anything about these
issues unless people ask explicit questions about them. & people often
don't ask pastors &c the questions they have because they're afraid of
the response they'll get. & the reason clergy don't have any problems
with evolution is often because they don't really understand it & don't
take the trouble to learn.

Churches - & clergy in particular - need to be pro-active about these
matters, bringing them up in appropriate & sensitive ways in educational
settings & sermons. They need to create an atmosphere which conveys an
openness to issues raised by science & technology & which encourages
people to voice the questions & concerns that they have. Clergy &
others involved in Christian education can't be & needn't be expert in
all scientific areas (who can?), but should be interested in them & have
some tentative ways of dealing with the major theological issues which
are involved. There's nothing wrong with responding to a question with
"I don't know but I'll try to find out" or "I'll try to see where you
can get an answer."

Shalom
George
http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/

----- Original Message -----

From: David Opderbeck <mailto:dopderbeck@gmail.com>

To: John Walley <mailto:john_walley@yahoo.com>

Cc: _American Sci Affil <mailto:asa@calvin.edu>

Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 1:25 PM

Subject: Re: [asa] E.O. Wilson "Baptist No More"

I suppose the point here is that the Church was at fault for not giving
Wilson other options. Perhaps there is a fair point there given the
particulars of Wilson's upbringing. But what if Wilson's response had
been to continually ask God to help him better understand the truth.
Would Wilson then have found organizations like the ASA that existed at
the time? Would he have found friends and mentors to help him work
through the questions everyone faces when they grow out of a childish
fundamentalism into a more mature faith? Would he have felt freer to
question some aspects of "evolution" as a metanarrative while at the
same time broadening his understanding of theology and scripture? In
short, do we really have to buy hook, line and sinker the story:
"Church: bad; Wilson: innocent?"
..................

To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
Received on Wed Nov 28 13:11:01 2007