Re: [asa] CDESIGN PROPONETSISTS

MessageYes. In answer to your final question, the notion that God can only create by bringing things into being in a perfect state is utterly wrong. It requires, among other things, that creation must be instantaneous (for any transitional form would be less than perfect) & that God's intention would be for things to remain utterly unchanged (for any change could only be for the worse). Scripture gives absolutely no warrant for this idea. "Be fruitful & multiply" in the 1st creation account & the command for humanity to "guard & serve" the garden in the 2d show that this idea is false. & it is this manifestly false idea which lies at the root of theological opposition to evolution.

Shalom
George
http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Jon Tandy
  To: asa@calvin.edu
  Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 8:47 AM
  Subject: RE: [asa] CDESIGN PROPONETSISTS

  It was "intelligent design" that created the transitional form "CDESIGN PROPONETSISTS", and further intelligent design that later corrected it to "design proponents". The question has been asked, why can't Intelligent Design take in a method of gradual change employed by the Creator?

  Of course, this was evidence of fallible human efforts, rather than a perfect Deity engaging in the transitional forms. But here's a question: Does God always do everything perfect the first time? What about His efforts to bring an individual to salvation -- doesn't that involve a gradual process, interrupted by certain "catastrophic" events in many cases? What about His efforts to sanctify and purify the Body of Christ as a whole (cf. Eph 5:26-27)? In a sense He did a perfect work in the sacrifice of Christ to effect the end result, but the working out of that perfection has been a long process, with more setbacks than advances, I dare say. If God can only be attributed with "creating" things perfectly, in final form (e.g. species), in order to be properly looked on as a Creator, is even this basic theological assumption flawed as a general principle?

  Jon Tandy
    -----Original Message-----
    From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of John Walley
    Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 7:21 AM
    To: 'Jack'; asa@calvin.edu
    Subject: RE: [asa] CDESIGN PROPONETSISTS

    Not to mention that if this copying error did make it to bumper stickers and further into the media and press, we would have a perfect analog of the evidence for common descent. Imagine trying to explain the design value of that.

    John

    -----Original Message-----
    From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of Jack
    Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 8:06 AM
    To: asa@calvin.edu
    Subject: [asa] CDESIGN PROPONETSISTS

    I do not know if this is old news or not, but did anyone see Nova last night? It was a short documentary about the Dover trial.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/

    It is worth watching if and when they broadcast it again.

    One of the more illuminating and ironic segments regarded the different drafts of Pandas and People. The lawyers for the plaintiff were trying to prove that ID was just a repackaging of what had previously been called creationism. One of the pieces of evidence was text from comparing pre and post Edwards editions of Pandas and People. After the Edwards decision the editors wanted to take "creationism" out of the book. One of the witnesses for the plaintiff found a couple of example where creationism/creator was changed to ID/design, with otherise identical wording. But the most humorous and ironic example was an attempt to remove the word creationist with the words design proponents. But something went wrong in the editing, and the actual wording in the post-Edwards draft was cdesign proponentsists. So, unkowingly, they created a "transitional form", and clear evidence that the authors of Pandas equate ID with creationism.

    I had never heard that little detail before, and thought it was worth mentioning here.

    I think CDESIGN PROPONETSISTS would make a great bumper sticker.

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Received on Wed Nov 14 09:08:06 2007