Re: [asa] Re: (appearance of age) ASA origins

What about his nails? Would they give indication of growth over time? Did Adam have Bowes' lines after the rib was taken from him because he should have done!

Michael
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: John Walley
  To: 'Dehler, Bernie' ; asa@calvin.edu
  Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 11:20 AM
  Subject: RE: [asa] Re: (appearance of age) ASA origins

  That's not the appearance of age, they would say he was a mature male, but brand new. He wouldn't have any gray hair or liver spots on him. That would be the appearance of age.

  Thanks

  John

  -----Original Message-----
  From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of Dehler, Bernie
  Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 1:48 AM
  To: asa@calvin.edu
  Subject: RE: [asa] Re: (appearance of age) ASA origins

  John Whalley said:
  "Even Ken Ham rejects the appearance of age argument because he says that makes God look deceptive and he's right on that one."

  How can Ken Ham reject an appearance of age? According to YEC, suppose you met Adam the day after he was born. Would Adam look like a 1 day old infant or a mature male? Obviously a mature male. the appearance of age right there.

  Thanks in general to all who replied to my email. I read them all quickly, and want to read them again later to fully digest.

  .Bernie

  -----Original Message-----
  From: John Walley <john_walley@yahoo.com>
  To: 'Janice Matchett' <janmatch@earthlink.net>; 'Dehler, Bernie' <bernie.dehler@intel.com>; asa@calvin.edu
  Sent: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 3:02 pm
  Subject: RE: [asa] ORIGINS: pseudogenes are overwhelming evidence for evolution...?

  I saw that article when it was first published as well but that is hardly the mechanism by which humans and chimps share pseudogenes. These genes were known to be formerly functional genes in a near relative, not bacteria.

  Could God have specially created man with broken pseudogenes and copying errors if He wanted to? Sure, just like He could have created a young earth and just made it look old. But why?

  Even Ken Ham rejects the appearance of age argument because he says that makes God look deceptive and he's right on that one.

  I think we just need to take our own advice and follow the evidence wherever it leads and be prepared to accept the most likely interpretation of the data without letting sentimental notions or theological hang-ups get in the way.

  John

  -----Original Message-----
  From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of Janice Matchett
  Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 2:32 PM
  To: Dehler, Bernie; asa@calvin.edu
  Subject: Re: [asa] ORIGINS: pseudogenes are overwhelming evidence for evolution...?

  At 01:02 AM 11/4/2007, Dehler, Bernie wrote:

  "...Both the pseudogene and chromosome evidence for evolution were cited as evidence by Dr. Francis Collins in his recent book. .." ~ Bernie Dehler

   @ You may my post of 9/13/2007 here to be of interest:

  http://www.calvin.edu/archive/asa/200709/0318.html
  Share Alike: Genes from bacteria found in animals - Patrick Barry

  Some insects and roundworms pick up DNA from bacteria living within their cells, new research shows.

  The DNA transfer occurs in the animals' egg cells, so the genetic modification passes between generations. The mechanism therefore provides an alternative to mutation of existing DNA as a way for the species to acquire new genetic traits.

  Gene swapping is ubiquitous among bacteria and other single-celled organisms. Even plants and fungi are known to occasionally adopt a piece of foreign DNA. But scientists thought
  that multicellular animals picked up genes from bacteria only rarely.

  "Our data are indicating that [DNA transfer] is going on all the time," says John H. Werren of the University of Rochester in New York, who led the research team.

  The discovery challenges the prevailing view of animal evolution, in which genetic information is passed exclusively from parents to offspring. The transfer of DNA from bacteria means that an individual could acquire and pass on genes that it had not inherited.

  "We're sort of on the edge of a transformation in the field" of animal evolution, comments Laura A. Katz of Smith College in Northampton, Mass. "These sorts of data allow us to redefine
  the field to capture this other process going on."

  Werren's team looked at several species of insects and roundworms infected by a parasitic bacterium called Wolbachia pipientis, which afflicts about 20 percent of insect species as well as many other invertebrates. The bacterium lives inside the animals' cells, including their egg cells, giving it ready access to the chromosomes that are passed on to the animals'
  offspring.

  "I think that physical access is the key to allowing this [DNA transfer] to happen," Werren says. The way in which animals' bodies insulate their eggs and sperm from foreign bacteria is
  the main barrier to heritable-DNA transfer in animals, he says.

  The researchers compared the genetic code of the bacterium with the code of 11 other species: four roundworms, four fruit flies, and three wasps. The team found that all but three of the
  fruit fly species had segments of the bacterium's genetic code embedded in their DNA. The report appears online and in an upcoming Science.

  Some of this transferred DNA is active in the host species' cells, the researchers found, but they didn't determine whether the genes serve a biological function in the host.

  The team also scanned an archive of published genomes for 21 other invertebrate species and found bacterial genes in nine of them.

  Such bacterial genetic code is routinely ignored during the sequencing of animals' genomes because most scientists have assumed that the foreign DNA is a sign of contamination,
  Werren says. However, the new research rules out the possibility of contamination, Katz says. "I think it's a really beautifully done, elegant study."

  Julie C. Dunning Hotopp, a member of the research team and a scientist at the J. Craig Venter Institute in Rockville, Md., says that the mechanism by which DNA leaves the bacteria and becomes inserted into the host species' chromosomes remains uncertain.

  While in-cell parasites such as W. pipientis are common among invertebrates, none is known to infect people or other mammals, Werren says.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!

To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
Received on Tue Nov 6 07:04:53 2007