RE: [asa] Random and natural vs intelligence

>Of course, most OECs do not invoke "intelligent design" for stars, instead
ascribing their development to God's sovereignty over nature and selection
of initial conditions.

This is a valid observation of an inconsistency in the OEC position and one
that has been pointed out to RTB. In physics and the creation of the
universe, they see the natural laws that God authored to be evidence of His
fingerprints on creation. However, in biology and the history of life,
natural laws are no longer His fingerprints but instead they insist on
special intervention or fiat creation for God to get in credit for it.
There is only one reason for this that I see and it is the same theological
hang-up that David O. voiced earlier, it leads to a non-special creation
scenario for Adam and negating his being a literal historical person, which
they reject.

However Strobel is right in pointing out that if TE's accept natural laws
guiding the process of evolution then it is not truly random. Gould used the
analogy of a drunk blind man staggering through a hallway. Whatever the
natural laws are that guide evolution, they are the equivalent of the
natural laws of physics and they both reveal God's fingerprints in creation.

Randomness can obviously be used in creation like we see today when having a
baby and anxiously awaiting to find out if it's a boy or a girl, but
obviously not the whole process of having a baby is random. Strobel is right
to draw the distinction of the latter but it is incorrect to say that God
can't use random mutations to create.

Thanks

John

-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
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Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 12:09 AM
To: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] Random and natural vs intelligence

Randy Isaac quotes a book reviewer as saying (with Lee Strobel agreeing):

----------------

"While theists can have a variety of legitimate views on life's evolution,
surely they must maintain that the process involves intelligence. So the
question is: Can an intelligent being use random mutations and natural
selection to create? No. This is not a theological problem; it is a logical
one. The words random and natural are meant to exclude intelligence. If God
guides which mutations happen, the mutations are not random; if God chooses
which organisms survive so as to guide life's evolution, the selection is
intelligent rather than natural.

"Theistic Darwinists maintain that God was "intimately involved" in
creation, to use Francis Collins's words. But they also think life developed
via genuinely random mutations and genuinely natural selection. Yet they
never explain what God is doing in this process. Perhaps there is still room
for him to start the whole thing off, but this abandons theism for deism."

-----------

But if one takes this logical viewpoint, one cannot consistently be an OEC
like Strobel either. What about stellar evolution? I believe people like
Strobel and Hugh Ross would say that the development of stars unfolded over
billions of years entirely from natural laws, with no extra input from
"intelligence" except perhaps at the Big Bang itself. Yet the Bible tells
us God made the stars. So, if one really takes the logical position that it
only counts as "creation" if some "intelligence" participates in the process
in a non-natural way, to be consistent one must insist on such intelligent
intervention for stars also in order to "make room" for God.

Of course, most OECs do not invoke "intelligent design" for stars, instead
ascribing their development to God's sovereignty over nature and selection
of initial conditions. Why is the same logic not applied consistently to
both stars and starfish?

Allan (ASA Member)

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Dr. Allan H. Harvey, Boulder, Colorado | SteamDoc@aol.com
"Any opinions expressed here are mine, and should not be
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Received on Tue Nov 6 06:17:52 2007