RE: [asa] Random and natural vs intelligence

>The truth is, if we use the word random for anything
>other than distributions, we are probably using it to hide from our own
ignorance of
>entire schools of future thought (like epigenetics).

Great point. Randomness and especially the "appearance of randomness"
arguments are cop-outs.

The epigenetics angle is very interesting indeed. I just watched a Nova
special on that the other day. It occurred to me that this might be the
mechanism by which God promises blessing and curses will travel down family
lineages to 3 and 4 generations.

Thanks

John

-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
Behalf Of mlucid@aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 10:32 PM
To: randyisaac@comcast.net
Cc: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] Random and natural vs intelligence

Epigenetics has already indicated the beginning of the end of "random" as
the
prevailing descriptor of how our genes are selected. If the the way we
live, such
as diet, can cause our epigenetic system to suppress or allow a given
section
of the genome and the resulting variations preferentially select a genome
that
otherwise might have been deselected then causality is spanned all the way
from
the human will to the genes selected for survival. Once there is the barest
causality
established then we can be seen as self-evolving to some extent in a way
that could
integrate over time eventually supplanting random mutation by the
potentially greater
efficiency of intent. (not to mention our ongoing intentional tinkering with
our genome,
epigenetic or otherwise.)

But even more interesting is the fact that almost all of science is the
investigation
and characterization of stuff that at one time or another was thought to be
random
(or, often as not, the will of God). The truth is, if we use the word
random for anything
other than distributions, we are probably using it to hide from our own
ignorance of
entire schools of future thought (like epigenetics).

-Mike (Friend of ASA)

-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Isaac <randyisaac@comcast.net>
To: asa@calvin.edu
Sent: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 8:26 pm
Subject: [asa] Random and natural vs intelligence

The November 2007 issue of Christianity Today includes a book review titled
"Deconstructing Dawkins" in which author Logan Paul Gage critiques McGrath's
book "The Dawkins Delusion." I don't think it's available online yet so let
me just type in two paragraphs of the article which I think deserve
discussion. My point is not to agree or disagree but to say that this is an
articulation of a critical point of difference within our communities that
needs to be clearly addressed.

"While theists can have a variety of legitimate views on life's evolution,
surely they must maintain that the process involves intelligence. So the
question is: Can an intelligent being use random mutations and natural
selection to create? No. This is not a theological problem; it is a logical
one. The words random and natural are meant to exclude intelligence. If God
guides which mutations happen, the mutations are not random; if God chooses
which organisms survive so as to guide life's evolution, the selection is
intelligent rather than natural.

"Theistic Darwinists maintain that God was "intimately involved" in
creation, to use Francis Collins's words. But they also think life developed
via genuinely random mutations and genuinely natural selection. Yet they
never explain what God is doing in this process. Perhaps there is still room
for him to start the whole thing off, but this abandons theism for deism."

This is essentially the same argument that Lee Strobel used on the radio a
few weeks ago when he firmly but respectfully rebuked Francis Collins.
Evolution is inherently random and without guidance and is therefore
mutually exclusive with divine guidance, he said.

Randy

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Received on Mon Nov 5 22:58:14 2007