[asa] Re: Origins

 I submit that we have just scratched the surface of evolution.? We used to be

quite confident in the inviolability of randomly mutated DNA as the whole of

the process. Now we see issues like epigenetics adding an independent

behavioral mechanism to the expression (and thus selection) of our DNA,

a mechanism which mitigates the so-called "random mutation" as the sole

cause of natural selection.?

This evolution of our rational understanding will not stop any time soon.? The

hand of God will continually be revealed in our ongoing creation.? As such we

are inadequate, permanently inadequate, to judge the perfection of Creation in

terms of what we might rationally understand at any given time.?

We don't know nearly enough about Creation, purpose, or evolution to make

a wild guess at how intelligent and perfect the Design may be.? But we know

what we know rationally as surely as we know God is immanent in Creation.

My faith leads me to an instinctive resolution of Creation, purpose and evolution
in a way my reason will never know.? They are all one thing in my faith.? Reason
has a place in our lives that is highly restricted, but extremely reliable.? Faith is
all the rest from the love of God right down to the color of blue.

The day that we realize the proper jurisdictions of reason and faith is the

day men of all faiths can put aside their rational minutia and realize that

God is inherent in the human condition and identical in every heart that,

in sufficient humility, seeks the truth through faith.? I personally think

that Jesus would tell me it would be a good thing if all men agreed

that God lives identically in all our hearts regardless of the histories

that lead us to God.?

Histories (like TE, OEC, and YEC) are just means to an end.? It is the

End that is the important thing, n'est pas?

-Mike (Friend of ASA)

-----Original Message-----

From: David Opderbeck <dopderbeck@gmail.com>

To: D. F. Siemens, Jr. <dfsiemensjr@juno.com>

Cc: john_walley@yahoo.com; bernie.dehler@intel.com; asa@calvin.edu

Sent: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 9:31 am

Subject: Re: [asa] ORIGINS: pseudogenes are overwhelming evidence for evolution...?

D.S. said:? But this means that God is a sloppy designer or
intentional deceiver unless it can be proved that every one of these
elements has a purpose. The exclusion of perfect design applies to
finite humans, but cannot apply to an omniscient deity.
 

?

Why?? Exactly the same argument applies against any TE position
that holds that God is sovereign over and the primary cause of
evolution.

?

On 11/4/07, D. F. Siemens, Jr. <dfsiemensjr@juno.com> wrote:

This presents one of the OEC approaches, that at various times God
added new genes to various individuals of groups and then let them
develop. The other view, which I heard from Hugh Ross, is that God
created every species de novo at the appropriate time in earth history.
But this means that God is a sloppy designer or intentional deceiver
unless it can be proved that every one of these elements has a purpose.
The exclusion of perfect design applies to finite humans, but cannot
apply to an omniscient deity. It can apply to a limited deity, as in
process theology. But even here a deity should know better or not to
able to tune the world to provide a place for life. This is a radically
different notion than the use of secondary apart from the big bang, or
the big bang and origin of life, or the big bang, origin of life and
the first human

Dave (ASA).

?

On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 08:41:22 -0500 "David Opderbeck" <dopderbeck@gmail.com> writes:

I think a typical OEC response is that God reused the genetic code
as He progressively created.? I don't think this is a terrible
response.? The counter-argument is, why would God re-use "messy" code??
But why not?? No one argues for "perfect" design, and any complex
coding exercise involves pieces of code that may have had some
functionality in earlier iterations but that aren't called upon in
later ones.? And, the full TE position really says exactly the same
thing, except that it holds that God's causal influence was secondary
rather than direct.

?

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Received on Mon Nov 5 12:23:31 2007