RE: [asa] Isolated humans

@ "Continual opportunities"???

I'd bet a thousand dollars right now that if the backgrounds of the
people with whom this kid comes in frequent contact were
investigated, one would find that some of them dabble in the occult
and/or otherwise (intentionally or unintentially) invite all sort of
"presences" into their lives by their "activities".

~ Janice

At 12:13 AM 11/3/2007, Dick Fischer wrote:
>For one who takes the Bible more literally than most, I think
>possibly we have a hint when Christ said, "You must be born again."
>
>Might this mean continual opportunities? I saw this when it aired
>on ABC. This is the story in the Daily Courier:
>
>By <mailto:jkroeger@tribweb.com>Judy Kroeger
>DAILY COURIER
>Thursday, April 15, 2004
>James Leininger, 6, of Lafayette, La., loves airplanes.
>
>"He has always been extraordinarily interested in airplanes," said
>James' mother, Andrea Leininger, by telephone from their Louisiana home.
>
>Lots of kids love airplanes, but James' story is unique. He has
>memories of being a World War II fighter pilot from Uniontown -- Lt.
>James McCready Huston, shot down near Iwo Jima in 1945.
>
>At 18 months old, his father, Bruce Leininger, took James to the
>Kavanaugh Flight Museum in Dallas, Texas, where the toddler remained
>transfixed by World War II aircraft.
>A few months later, the nightmares began.
>
>"They were terrible, terrible," Andrea said. "He would scream,
>'airplane crash, on fire, little man can't get out!' He'd be
>kicking, with his hands pointing up at the ceiling."
>
>When James was 2 1/2 years old, he and Andrea were shopping and he
>wanted a toy airplane. "I said to him, 'Look, it has a bomb on the
>bottom' and he told me, 'That's not a bomb, it's a drop tank.' I had
>no idea what a drop tank was."
>
>Neither of the Leiningers have ever served in the military, nor are
>they involved with aviation. Until James began showing an interest
>in planes, they had nothing aviation-related in their home.
>
>Andrea's mother sent her a book by Pennsylvania author Carol Bowman,
>called "Children's Past Lives." The Leiningers started using
>Bowman's techniques of affirming James' nightmares and assuring him
>that the experiences happened to a different person, not the person
>he was now. "It helped. The nightmares stopped almost immediately,"
>Andrea said.
>
>However, the memories did not stop, but they do not come up all the time.
>
>"I was reading him a story and he got a faraway look," she recalled.
>"I asked what happened to your plane? 'Got shot,' he said. Where?
>'Engine.' Where did it crash? 'Water.' When I asked him who shot the
>plane, he gave me a look like a teenager, rolling his eyes, 'the
>Japanese,' like who else could it have been?
>
>"What little kid knows about the Japanese," she asked. "He said he
>knew it was a Japanese plane because of the red sun. My husband and
>I were shell-shocked."
>
>James provided other information. He said his earlier name was
>James, he flew a Corsair and took off on a boat called the Natoma,
>and he remembered a fellow flyer named Jack Larson.
>
>Foods can set James' memories off, too.
>
>"I hadn't made meatloaf in 10 years, so James had never had it,"
>Andrea said. "When he sat down, he said, 'Meatloaf! I haven't had
>that since I was on the Natoma.' When we were getting ice cream one
>day, he told me that they could have ice cream every day on the Natoma."
>
>Bruce began researching his son's memories and discovered a small
>escort carrier called the Natoma Bay, which was present at the
>Battle of Iwo Jima. Twenty-one of its crew perished. Bruce also
>discovered that only one of the Natoma's crew was named James, James Huston.
>
>James Huston's plane was hit in the engine by Japanese fire on March
>3, 1945, went down in flames and sank immediately. Flyer Jack Larson
>witnessed the crash.
>
>James Huston was born Oct. 22, 1923, in South Bend, Ind., and lived
>in Uniontown during the 1930s. His father was James McCready Huston
>Sr., of Brownsville, and Daryl Green Huston, who was born in New
>Geneva and grew up in Uniontown. James was the only son.
>
>According to Lt. Huston's cousin, Bob Huston of Flatwoods, the elder
>Huston started several newspapers and published 13 books. He was
>living in Brownsville when two Navy officers informed Huston of his
>son's death.
>
>"I didn't know James," Bob Huston said. His parents were divorced,
>"but I knew his father. He stayed with us in Brownsville. James was
>on his 50th mission and would have come home if he'd lived another
>five minutes."
>
>The Leiningers have been in touch with Bob Huston.
>
>"I knew what happened to James (Huston)," he said. "I was excited to
>hear from them (the Leiningers). The boy's mother was flabbergasted
>when all this happened."
>
>Andrea believes that her son is the reincarnation of Lt. James
>Huston. "There are so many little things. I believe in reincarnation now."
>
>Her husband, Bruce, remains skeptical. "He started researching to
>disprove what James was telling us, and ended up proving it all," he
>said. "I think he believes that James Huston's spirit has manifested
>itself in our son somehow."
>
>The Leiningers have been in touch with Natoma Bay veterans, too.
>
>"We didn't tell the veterans for a long time," Andrea said, "but
>everyone has a story about having had a spirit visit them. James'
>sister, Anne Barron, was in California talking to him the day he was
>killed. Anne believes James' story, because he has provided so much
>information that only her brother could have known.
>
>"Families of the 21 men who were killed are talking to each other,"
>continued Andrea. "It's brought them together."
>
>The Leiningers plan to attend this year's Natoma Bay reunion and
>bring their son, James.
>
>Andrea doesn't know why this has happened.
>
>"If he did come back, why? Maybe it was so my husband could write
>the book about the Natoma Bay," she said. "It helped turn the tide
>of the war in the Pacific and was one of the most highly decorated
>carriers, but it hasn't received much recognition."
>
>She said her husband has been working on a chronology of what's
>happened to James and is researching the book. "He has flight plans
>from the missions and has spent a year and a half on research. In
>the introduction, he's writing about how he found out about the ship."
>
>That discovery, through a toddler's fascination with airplanes and
>nightmares, has led to a segment on national television.
>
>ABC contacted Carol Bowman about her work on children's past lives
>and James Leininger's experience was the most verifiable, Andrea
>said. "And we agreed to share his story."
><http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/dailycourier/news/s_189477.html>http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/dailycourier/news/s_189477.html
>
>
>Dick Fischer
>Dick Fischer, Genesis Proclaimed Association
>Finding Harmony in Bible, Science, and History
><http://www.genesisproclaimed.org/>www.genesisproclaimed.org
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]
>On Behalf Of David Opderbeck
>Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 8:48 PM
>To: Merv
>Cc: Randy Isaac; asa@calvin.edu
>Subject: Re: [asa] Isolated humans
>
>A recent book on this is Terrance Tiessen's "Who Can Be Saved." I
>haven't read the whole book -- honestly, this is an issue that
>bothers me as well, and I'm more than a little afraid to dive into
>it too much. Tiessen argues for what he calls an "accesibilist"
>view, which seems to be somewhere in between exclusivism (the
>traditional evangelical position) and inclusivism (a position
>associated with open theism and I believe John Sanders and Clark
>Pinnock -- I have Sander's book "No Other Name" on this issue but
>also have been afraid to read it, and I have not yet picked up a
>copy of Pinnocks "A Wideness in God's Mercy.")
>
>If I understand the gist of Tiessen's argument, he suggests that God
>somehow can give everyone a chance to respond to the gospel. None
>of these views are universalist, but the accesibilist and
>inclusivist positions have drawn lots of fire from conservative
>quarters. Tiessen's book, BTW, was blurbed by Christopher J.H.
>Wright, Director of John Stott's Langham Fellowship, who wrote a
>fabulous book on missions called "The Mission of God." Wright's
>thesis essentially is that missions ought to be more holistically
>focused on all aspects of the Kingdom.
>
>But ultimately, particularly with respect to people who lived before
>Christ or who otherwise had no contact with the gospel, is this
>another place where we simply have to presuppose and trust that God
>is loving, just, knowing, true, and good, and limit ourselves to
>what is right before us?
>
>
>
>
>On 11/2/07, Merv <<mailto:mrb22667@kansas.net>mrb22667@kansas.net> wrote:
>I have heard Christians (including young-earthers) speculating that
>perhaps Christ reveals himself to them in his own way (maybe even
>after physical death) and that all will have a chance to accept or
>reject him one way or another. Admittedly this is extra-biblical
>speculation for the express purpose of preserving our sense of
>appropriate divine justice in just these questions. I'm not aware
>of any passages that refute the possibility, and once Paul uses an
>interesting premise (I Cor. 15:29)
>asking rhetorically why else would somebody be "baptized for the
>dead" as he is making another point. Perhaps some extravagant
>Catholic traditions have grown up from these kinds of hints. But I
>think in the end, it does come down to trust. We have a sense of
>justice that must be at least in part God given, and if we can't
>trust God to do the ultimate right thing by everybody, then, well,
>we've got bigger problems than nit-picking about who's in and who's out.
>
>You're right about the missions dilemma. Interestingly enough many
>Calvinists have always been strong on missions which always seemed
>ironic to me, since they of all people could have the motivation to
>sit back and say it's already all been pre-ordained by God and we
>can't save anybody. But they don't try to look at that side of
>it. They just see the command "Go and make disciples ..." and
>consider that to be their marching orders. The results are in
>God's hands. Even though I'm not a Calvinist, I think that's a
>spiritually well-grounded and Biblical approach to all this. I also
>like C.S. Lewis' approach with the Calorman who, to his own
>surprise, wound up in Aslan's paradise despite his life spent in
>apparent worship of a different god. "No good deed done for Tash
>is done for Tash but is done unto me, and no vile deed done in my
>name is done for me but is done for Tash" --or so I think the words
>went. (I know works don't save... but they are the evidence of salvation.)
>
>If a native never hears the direct news, perhaps he still responds
>to a revelation that is given to him beyond what is available in
>"natural theology". And whatever name he gives it, if any, it may
>well be Christ at work in his heart. Which preserves the essential
>doctrine that only Christ saves. ("Fourth Wiseman" by Henry Van
>Dyke is a wonderful story.)
>
>--Merv
>
>Randy Isaac wrote:
>The question I have is not a new one, and has been hashed around a
>lot, but it does still bother me. Hitchens referred to it in his
>book and debate as well. How do we understand the notion that the
>gospel of Christ's incarnation, crucifixion, and resurrection, with
>all its soterial implications, is the unique path for reconciliation
>to God when a significant portion of the human population did not
>even have the possibility of hearing about the gospel?
>
>Coming from a very mission-minded church, I've always heard pleas
>for "reaching those who have never heard" the gospel, with the
>responsibility on our shoulders to heed the great commission to
>share the good news. Somehow, the fact that a significant part of
>the world could not be reached for many centuries with any
>technology available no matter how zealous we may be, seems to put a
>different twist on it.
>
>If "original sin" dates back to the common human ancestral
>community, however that occurred, how is it that there is no
>commonly available gospel? The thread on natural theology revealed
>several different views of whether and how much we could learn about
>God through nature. I didn't hear anyone argue that we could learn
>about salvation from nature.
>
>The standard answers I grew up with seemed to revolve around God's
>accountability for humans being set relative to the amount of
>information/revelation we had so that all were without excuse.
>That's where Romans was usually cited. That of course led to the
>inevitable retort that we should leave indigenous people in their
>ignorance. Which didn't help matters.
>
>Far be it from any of us to question why God did it this way or
>claim "God surely wouldn't have done that" or the like. Yet, I
>confess it does leave me with a most uncomfortable feeling. Yes, I
>suppose I should just be content with "that's the way it is" but....
>
>Randy
>
>

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Received on Sat Nov 3 16:42:06 2007