Re: [asa] dawkins and collins on "Fresh Air" interview program

-- 
James Mahaffy (mahaffy@dordt.edu)          Phone: 712 722-6279
498 4th Ave NE
Biology Department                                     FAX :  712
722-1198
Dordt College, Sioux Center IA 51250-1697
>>> On 3/31/2007 at 10:10 AM, in message
<20070331151530.EB367710F87@gray.dordt.edu>, "David Opderbeck"
<dopderbeck@gmail.com> wrote:
> *Poured himself into a design... Sounds almost as scientific as God
is
>> beyond science. Poof...*
> 
> To be clear, this wasn't intended as a defense of ID.  It was
intended as a
> reference to my orthodox Christian belief in "one God, the Father,
the
> Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and
unseen," who,
> in the words of the ASA's Statement of Faith, "has endowed it with
> contingent order and intelligibility."  This God whom Christians
have
> professed for 2000 years (and who was professed by the Jews long
before
> that) does not arise out of creation.  He is outside, over, and above
it.
> He is a given; he simply is.
Amen brother..
> 
> *"You say God created the universe -- well, then, who created God?"* 
is not
> the novel, breakthrough jibe Dawkins wants it to be.  It's a
threadbare old
> canard, and the answer is simply "no one -- He is God."  At some
point,
> reductions have to cease.  The same is true for Dawkins' materialsm
-- "you
> say everything must arise gradually out of something simpler -- well
then,
> where did that something simpler arise from?"  Dawkins needs to go
back and
> read his Aristotle and Aquinas.
> 
> Pim, I don't have time to go on and on about something this obvious. 
If you
> think what Dawkins is doing is merely debunking ID, what can I say? 
Either
> you haven't actually read or listened to Dawkins' hateful diatribes
against
> religion of any kind, or your anti-ID glasses are so thick that you
can only
> see through that lense, or something else.
I must say though that the automatic slams against ID and any
Creationists not TE have been less. Not yet to the point that they would
feel welcome as brothers with whom most of disagree but I think we used
to be worse.  Could we even get to the point of dialog?
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