Re: [asa] God as Cause

Gregory -

You speak as if it were self evident that "social, cultural and historical" realities are not part of the natural world. It seems to me that many of your criticisms depend on an unnecessarily understanding of what is natural.

Shalom
George
http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Gregory Arago
  To: David Campbell ; asa@calvin.edu
  Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 5:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [asa] God as Cause

  "Everyday experience also shows that the use of natural methods is quite practical for all sorts of things. You are using natural methods to find out what I am saying (e.g., reading email rather thanexpecting the Spirit to reveal my thoughts to you), yet you ought to evaluate my statements from a thoroughly theistic perspective." - David Campbell
   
  There are social, cultural and historical methods also for this task - 'natural methods' are not enough. Are they "quite practical for all sorts of things?" Yes. But still, natural methods are alone not enough.
   
  I would ask David C., on what scientific basis he makes the above claim? What 'science of everyday life' has he accessed to make this claim? Probably such a 'science' has escaped his mind.
   
  David Opderbeck's statement that "Belief in intentional action by autonomous agents requires some sort of meta-natural presuppositions" is right on the mark. The gigantic problem is that natural scientists will not (and possibly cannot) recognize it. They simply cannot 'get outside' of a naturalistic framework to assess it!

  "You are not just using natural methods. But you are using natural methods." - David C.
   
  Perhaps this was a typo?
   
  It is only the theology or the philosophy in/of people here at ASA that allows them to step outside of their naturalistic assumptions, cosmology included, to seek a balance whereby scientism isn't simply the norm.
   
  Arago
   
   

  David Campbell <pleuronaia@gmail.com> wrote:
    Like many attempts to redefine science (not only on the part of ID
    advocates), Platinga seems to be falling prey to a touch of scientism.
    ...
    Like much ID, Platinga's arguments sound to me as though the
    conclusions came first and a less than persuasive attempt at
    justifying them was then inserted.

    --
    Dr. David Campbell
    425 Scientific Collections
    University of Alabama
    "I think of my happy condition, surrounded by acres of clams"
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Received on Tue Jan 9 20:23:12 2007