Re: [asa] Cosmological Evolution?

Dave, Just checked a couple of on-line dictionaries and both ‘change’ and ‘process’ usually contain more definitions than ‘evolution.’ In the Oxford Compact dictionary that Bill cites the ratio of def’ns for evolution to change and process looks like this: evolution (4), change (11), process (8). So it is simply not true what you wrote below.
   
  “One reason why 'process' and 'change' are not synonyms for 'evolution' is that there are more definitions to the latter.” – D.F. Siemens, Jr.
   
  Why not engage the topic instead of dancing around it as if it wasn’t relevant?
   
  Just because you’re ‘disappointed with my response,’ which is asking Bill to clarify his position, doesn’t mean that you should interject with a kind of 'universal evolutionary naturalism.' Perhaps this is an example of someone trying to over-complexify their imagined meaning of evolution, when the philosophy that underpins it is what is lacking. Embryonic and fetal development I am not questioning, but rather the vocabulary of ‘cosmological evolution,’ which begs for a clearer explanation. Can I sincerely ask people about this at ASA?
   
  Dave writes: “'change' does not fit biological evolution well because there is an OEC theory of change…”
   
  This is laughable. It just seems to be stuck in the old conversation (YEC, OEC, MEC, etc.), unwilling to confront the new when it is read, see or heard. Probably you think that all evolutionists are natural scientists and/or naturalists too!
   
  Allen Harvey wrote in October (here:: http://www.calvin.edu/archive/asa/200610/0182.html): “I have become more convinced that 99% of Christian anti-evolutionism boils down to [the] two things,” i.e. ‘god of the gaps’ and ‘evolution is in conflict with the Bible.’ I promptly replied (here: http://www.calvin.edu/archive/asa/200610/0202.html) that I don’t fit into Dr. Harvey’s 99% categorization. This probably made people who are used to arguing against the 99% somehow uncomfortable – there was no reply.
   
  Thus, it is to my great surprise that many people at ASA (but not all) don’t seem to be willing to answer the tough questions about evolution that may help those honestly inquiring about how to balance science and religion, their faith and scientific knowledge within scientistic-technological societies that often elevate evolution into a centrally important paradigm in more fields of study than actually makes sense. Evolution is a multi-disciplinary paradigm (whereas ASA is not only about natural sciences). This thread has been about pondering and perhaps discovering whether ‘cosmological evolution’ or ‘evolutionary cosmology’ makes any sense from a Christian perspective.
   
  Still glad to hear Bill's response.
   
  G. Arago
   
   
   

    On Fri, 5 Jan 2007 14:20:02 -0500 (EST) Gregory Arago <gregoryarago@yahoo.ca> writes:
    Bill Hamilton wrote:
  "I agree that 'process' and 'change' are imperfect synonyms for 'evolution'."
   
  This is great, then we agree! Could you please go further now and say why you agree with this? Why are these two concepts imperfect synonyms for evolution?

  As for the Oxford Compact on-line dictionary def'n of 'evolution', you say that 'stellar evolution' (i.e. closely related to 'cosmological evolution') means: "2 gradual development" and "4 a pattern of movements or manoeuvres."
   
  Please excuse that I'm still doubting how this qualifies as a kind of 'cosmological evolution.' Things in space and over-time develop and move, gradually (as opposed to?), and there are patterns? Doesn't such a def'n seem philosophical rather than scientific?
   
  Arago
  

Bill Hamilton <williamehamiltonjr@yahoo.com> wrote:
    
--- Gregory Arago wrote:

> “The cosmos is certainly ‘changing,’ but I wonder why people (esp. cosmologists) would use the concept of ‘evolution’ to describe that/those
> change(s).” - Arago
>
> ¨Bill Hamilton replied:
  
Actually it's Howard Van Till's position (and probably that of the astronomy
community as a whole)

I won't touch the word 'better' either. And I agree that 'process' and 'change'
are imperfect synonyms for 'evolution'.

I should have provided the Oxford Compact online dictionary's definition of evolution:

noun 1 the process by which different kinds of living organism are believed to have developed, especially by natural selection. 2 gradual development. 3 Chemistry the giving off of a gaseous product or of heat. 4 a pattern of
movements or manoeuvres

As you can see 'evolution' has several definitions. I think 'stellar evolution' falls under definition 2 or 4 (as corrected).

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Received on Fri Jan 5 20:43:53 2007