Re: [asa] YEC and ID arguments

David,
You are confusing scientism-materialism with Darwinism-evolution. It
looks to be deliberate, given your reference to "'true' Darwinists." The
former claims that there is nothing except what science can study. This
excludes any possible reference to a deity, except as an anthropological
construct, or to mind and spirit except as shorthand for brain function.
The latter is not necessarily a dogma, but a scientific theory buttressed
especially by paleontology, taxonomy and, more recently, by genetics and
evo-devo. It is equally compatible with God's method of creating as with
a lucky accident of the vacuum or whatever may be involved in a
multiverse.

I was originally taught YEC and gap theory, convincingly for someone with
little knowledge of science. I was forced by the evidence, step by
grudging step, to OEC and then TE. Theologically, I was forced from naive
inerrancy to the position of Augustine, Calvin and the Westminster
Confession, for the orthodox view of scripture was also misrepresented to
me. Early on I encountered what I call the Evangelical Revised Version,
when a professor who signed the statement of faith without reservation,
faced with the /ipsissima verba/ declared, "I can't imagine ..." in
dismissal. Later I encountered Mark Twain's "spiral twist," the more
sophisticated and dangerous version. In contrast, I have been trying to
understand God's two books on their own terms, along with digging out my
ultimate presuppositions. Being fallible and limited, I'll not get it all
right. But I intend to keep working at it.
Dave

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 22:14:03 -0400 "David Opderbeck"
<dopderbeck@gmail.com> writes:
And you "overspeak" yourself all the time in your insistence upon
applying
the generic term "evolution" from the specific meanings of cosmic and
chemical and biological evolutions (all very different of course to
anyone
who's studied science) to social and cultural phenomena.
 
But this is exactly how materialists apply the term, from Dawkins to
Lewontin to Dennett to Wilson. In our somewhat insular discussions on
this list, we like to cabin "evolution" as something very specific
involving biological common descent. But "true" Darwinists apply
"evolution" to mind, spirit and culture as well, whether in the form of
sociobiology or memetics. We who believe there is such a thing as the
image of God in man are just as ridiculous to true Darwinists as YECs
(and for some, ID's) are to us. Greg is right about this.

BTW, there's a fascinating and frightening article in the current issue
of Wired on the "new atheism" that reinforces, I think, Greg's point.
It's not online yet, but pick it up on the news stand. All of us who
believe there is something beyond mere matter are held in utter contempt
by the intellectual vanguard of contemporary Darwinism, whether we accept
common descent or not. We should spend more energy on thoughtful,
unified responses to the fallacies of materialism than we do on sniping
at other people of faith who question evolution, however defined.
 

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Received on Thu Oct 19 23:36:45 2006