Re: [asa] Of motes and beams

Hi Don,

I am not sure that I understand the difference between your "theological"
and "historical" truth. Can you please expand your thoughts here? To answer
your later points, you might care to read what I've just sent to George.

Vernon

----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Nield" <d.nield@auckland.ac.nz>
To: "Vernon Jenkins" <vernon.jenkins@virgin.net>
Cc: <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 11:26 PM
Subject: Re: [asa] Of motes and beams

> Hi Vernon:
> No, I do not believe the passages to be untrue. To the contrary, I hold
> that they express essential theological truth. But they should not be
> taken as historical. It is important not to read into scripture something
> that is not there.
> Yes, I agree that no form of of human activity can be considered immune to
> supernatural interference --miracles can happen -- but that does mean
> that supernatural explanations should be incorporated into science. If one
> does incorporate supernatural explanations then one is left wide open to
> the arguments expressed by Carl Sagan about the demon haunted world. I
> would insist that methodological naturalism is the essential basis of
> doing science. I would also emphasize the limitations of science based on
> methodological naturalism. It is important not to read into the
> scientific literature something that is not there.
> Don
>
>
> Vernon Jenkins wrote:
>
>> Hi Don,
>>
>> Thanks for your comments. However, when you state that "The passages are
>> theological stories about Satan.", does that mean you believe them to be
>> untrue? If so, are you not surprised that God has allowed them to appear
>> in His Revealed Word?
>>
>> On the other hand, if by these means it is intended that Christians be
>> taught some of the fundamentals of life in the courts of heaven, you must
>> surely agree that no form of human activity can be considered immune to
>> supernatural interference. In such circumstances MN must cease to exist
>> as a valid working hypothesis.
>>
>> Vernon
>> www.otherbiblecode.com
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Nield" <d.nield@auckland.ac.nz>
>> To: "Vernon Jenkins" <vernon.jenkins@virgin.net>
>> Cc: <asa@calvin.edu>
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 2:46 AM
>> Subject: Re: [asa] Of motes and beams
>>
>>
>>> Vernon:
>>> The passages are theological stories about Satan. They have nothing to
>>> do with science.
>>> All discussion about God is concerned with the supernatural. But that
>>> has nothing to do with methodological naturalism.
>>> Don
>>>
>>> Vernon Jenkins wrote:
>>>
>>>> Forum,
>>>> I observe that many here are quick to pounce on any perceived weakness
>>>> in the YEC position. But what of their own position as TEs? It appears
>>>> to me that all are prepared to ignore some very fundamental Bible
>>>> teaching. For example, concerning Job 1: 6-12, 2:1-6 and 1Kings
>>>> 22:19-22, I am wondering what the purpose of these precious revelations
>>>> might be if not to refute methodological naturalism - which all here
>>>> appear to accept as a valid basis for practising science. Clearly,
>>>> these extracts suggest that the _natural_ is, and always has been, open
>>>> to supernatural activity - in God's wisdom, and at His discretion.
>>>> It is interesting that Darwin's _goad_, Alfred Russell Wallace
>>>> (undoubtedly, a reliable observer - though not a Christian) was
>>>> convinced of the reality of the supernatural and wrote extensively of
>>>> his first hand experiences of it. Many (including myself) would condemn
>>>> his partiality for the seance - but his desire to learn, surely, cannot
>>>> be faulted. On the other hand, our interest in the supernatural, as
>>>> Christians, appears to begin and end with the resurrection. Is this
>>>> really adequate for those who earnestly seek truth?
>>>> Vernon
>>>> www.otherbiblecode.com <http://www.otherbiblecode.com>
>>>
>
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Received on Wed Jul 12 17:41:20 2006