Re: Blind scorpions (or fish) as proof of evolution?

Re: " But the whole idea is to take God out of the equation, correct?"
Nope, just to suggest that another way this could happen is that the
capacity for such complex things to arise "naturally" could be built
into the substance and workings of the natural world. This takes no
credit at all away from the One who designed it to be and function in
that way. It has proven historically risky to assert that because I
don't understand a thing in my time that it is therefore
ununderstandable and attributable only to the special specific action of
God in addition to the initial design. The discoveries (mostly in
mathematics) that startling complex things can result from quite simple
starting conditions and operating rules increases the risk of making an
assertion as to the God-direct action alone.

One can be just as much in awe of a dynamic, creative, designed cosmos
that produces a given result, as one can be in awe of the finished
product. Both are in order. So some caution might be in order in
declaring special knowledge as to how (or how not) that given result
comes about. A real and practical problem is that the designed-in
potential is a difficult concept for someone who does not have knowledge
of or work in the scientific disciplines that illuminate some of these
other possibilities. An easier default is a "too complex" plausibility
argument, especially when some such plausibility arguments come from
folks who may have some credentials, but whose credentials and arguments
cannot be meaningfully critiqued by the listener. The arguments are then
about convincing, not facts and logic.

JimA

Mike Tharp wrote:

> Answers in Genesis indicate that they "delight in using blind cave
> fish as examples of 'downhill' or 'information-losing' mutations
> causing 'devolution'"
> (http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v23/i1/eldredge.asp).
>
>
>
> The metamorphosis of a caterpillar into a butterfly is something that
> causes me to question the feasibility of evolution. How can random
> mutations and natural selection account for this? I'm not saying it
> can't, but only that I don't understand how it can. How does one
> speculate that this metamorphosis process arose? Of course, if
> evolution was directed by God, it could certainly be possible. But
> the whole idea is to take God out of the equation, correct?
>
>
>
> In Christ,
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path" (Psalm
> 119:105).
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]
> On Behalf Of Dick Fischer
> Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 1:12 PM
> To: 'Janice Matchett'; ASA
> Subject: RE: Hebrew University researchers uncover eight previously
> unknown species
>
>
>
> Hi Janice,
>
>
>
> "Blind scorpions" is one proof of evolution. Living for millions of
> years in total darkness, eyesight was jettisoned as unnecessary. The
> creationist must argue that God specially created blind creatures just
> to live in caves.
>
>
>
> Dick Fischer
>
> Dick Fischer, Genesis Proclaimed Association
>
> Finding Harmony in Bible, Science, and History
>
> www.genesisproclaimed.org <http://www.genesisproclaimed.org>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]
> On Behalf Of Janice Matchett
> Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 10:48 AM
> To: asa@calvin.edu
> Subject: Hebrew University researchers uncover eight previously
> unknown species
>
>
>
> Item of interest to those who haven't seen it yet, but are interested
> in the history of ancient bodies of water in the Middle East ~ Janice
>
> Hebrew University researchers uncover eight previously unknown species
> <http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1641160/posts>EurekAlert!
> News ^ | May 31, 2006 | Staff
> http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2006-05/thuo-hur053106.php
>
> Discovery of eight previously unknown, ancient animal species within
> "a new and unique underground ecosystem" in Israel was revealed today
> by Hebrew University of Jerusalem researchers.
>
> In a press conference on the Mt. Scopus campus of the Hebrew
> University, the researchers said the discovery came about when a small
> opening was found, leading to a cave extending to a depth of 100
> meters beneath the surface of a quarry in the vicinity of Ramle,
> between Jerusalem and Tel Aviv. The quarry is operated by cement
> manufacturer Nesher Industries.
>
> The cave, which has been dubbed the Ayalon Cave, is "unique in the
> world," said Prof. Amos Frumkin of the Hebrew University Department of
> Geography. This is due mainly to its isolation from the outside world,
> since the cave's surface is situated under a layer of chalk that is
> impenetrable to water. The cave, with its branches, extends over some
> 2½ kilometers, making it Israel's second largest limestone cave. It is
> to remain closed to the public to permit further scientific research.
>
> The invertebrate animals found in the cave - four seawater and
> freshwater crustaceans and four terrestial species - are related to
> but different from other, similar life forms known to scientists. The
> species have been sent to biological experts in both Israel and abroad
> for further analysis and dating. It is estimated that these species
> are millions of years old. Also found in the cave were bacteria that
> serve as the basic food source in the ecosystem.
>
> "The eight species found thus far are only the beginning" of what
> promises to be "a fantastic biodiversity," said Dr. Hanan Dimentman of
> the Hebrew University Alexander Silberman Institute of Life Sciences,
> another of the researchers involved in the project. He said that he
> expects further exploration to reveal several other unique life forms.
>
> The animals found there were all discovered live, except for a blind
> species of scorpion, although Dr. Dimentman is certain that live
> scorpions will be discovered in further explorations and also probably
> an animal or animals which feed on the scorpions.
>
> The underground cave includes an underground lake, in which the
> crustaceans were found. The lake is part of the Yarkon-Taninim
> aquifer, one of Israel's two aquifers, yet is different in temperature
> and chemical composition from the main waters of the aquifer. The
> lake's temperature and salinity indicates that its source is deep
> underground.
>
> Among the interesting features of the discoveries thus far in the cave
> is that two of the crustaceans are seawater species and two others are
> of a types found in fresh or brackish water. This can provide insights
> into events occurring millions of years ago regarding the history of
> ancient bodies of water in the region.
>
>
Received on Wed May 31 16:29:22 2006