RE: mtDNA Eve and the determination of humanity

Glenn,

Being 1/4 Thai, 1/14 Brit-American, 1/4 Cherokee, 1/4 Irish-American, and
father of three 1/2 African-American and 1/8 of the previously mentioned
children, I understand what you mean about perceptions. But animalistic
behaviours are not justified. Even when people are of the exact same race
or for that matter identical (maternal) twins there can be perceived
differences and fighting, etc. That is one of the main purposes of Christ.
If one can love his enemy than he can love everyone. Using racism as a
determining factor in an apologetic does not serve a purpose and can be
counterproductive to the theology. I'm not saying that having a common
ancestor for all man, whether 10 years ago or 1,000,000,000,000 years ago
isn't important, but it is more important that humanity learn to share and
love one another. That is te Christian way regardless of whether there is
common descent or just a interbreeding of different evolutionary chains. We
know now that we all share something in common, a creator and perhaps one
day love and respect.

Don P
  -----Original Message-----
  From: glennmorton@entouch.net [mailto:glennmorton@entouch.net]
  Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 10:55
  To: glennmorton@entouch.net; 'Donald@broadbandsupport.net; E-mail)'
<donperrett@theology-perspectives.net>
  Cc: 'ASA@broadbandsupport.net; E-mail)' <asa@calvin.edu>, 'Dick Fischer
(E-mail)' <dickfischer@verizon.net>
  Subject: RE: mtDNA Eve and the determination of humanity

  My original reply to you (which you are replying to below)didn't make it
to the ASA list(I have lots of trouble with that) so it will appear whenever
the cybergods decide to favor the delivery of my email to the ASA archive.
Anyway here is my response to this.

  On Tue Feb 28 10:23 , "Donald Perrett \(E-mail\)" sent:

>>>>Assuming that one first holds to Dick's view of Adam, then the idea
I expressed would account for the age problem you mention. But while this
might make the age issue more palatable, it can't address your issues on the
flood. The idea I had was mainly to find a possible common ground for you
on the age issue. Being one that holds the view that Dick does on Adam as
first "Godly" man, the age issue has been one I too have wrestled with. The
only solution for me was either they had very unique DNA and perhaps a
Christ like ability to heal themselves or the ages referred to family reins.
While not sold on myself, due to lack of evidence, there is some ancient
sociological evidence that the family rein was likely. On the other hand
there is no evidence of long life spans, as you have pointed out.
    As for Adam as the first actual human, I guess you would have to first
define (based on biblical interpretation) what a man is. Then you might
have luck working the time frame out. I do not believe that H.S.Sapiens are
by default a man as termed biblically. Besides if Adam is the first man and
Christ was the last man, then using logic one must conclude that there have
been no humans since Christ if Adam was the actual first human. So
biblically and logically speaking just as there have been humans since
Christ, then there too were humans before Adam. The idea that the
patriarchs were spiritual messengers has never been denied. So why should
the idea that Adam was here for the same reason not be implied, whether
mentioned or not.<<<<

    GRM: Well biblically he was made from dirt! None of the other
patriarchal messengers were scooped up out of the earth. The Genesis
account is clearly a creation account, not something which would be
necesssary if the guy had a mommy and daddy.

>>>As for humans prior to Adam performing worship of some sort, of
course there was, just as you have pointed out. The citations you have
given in the past have been things such as bear worship. All animals
worship or cower to anything greater than themselves. Most everyone is
aware of the animal alpha/beta male relationship. God through Adam was
trying to get us away from this animal behaviour, to a better understanding
of his creation and our purpose in it. Worshipping animals, nature, and
other created things, is not the same as worshipping the creator. <<<<

    GRM:A beta wolf turning over on his back, exposing his belly to the
alpha male is not quite the same as a group of people who pave a large
circular area and place an upright stone in the center and bison horns on
each side of the stone. There are Druid ruins which have similar circular
paved areas. Is there any doubt they were worshipping a divine being? If
not, then why doubt evidence which is older?

    GRM:And I would think you have made a distinction without a difference.
If worshipping animals is not the same as worshipping the creator why? MAny
primitive tribes think the animal was the creator! Now if only Jehovah
worship defines mankind, then we have a problem. Most people in the world
are not human.

>>>> Adam of course failed and Christ had to come and make it right.
While there are a few out there that still worship other things, etc, the
vast majority now worship the creator alone. Which also fits into my
interpretation of brother fighting brother. Spiritually, a creator-theist
fighting a nature/animal/man-theist is not a brother fighting brother. One
is a child of God (spiritually) the other is a child of something else (that
which he worships). The future will be brother against brother because
those fighting now and in the future worship the same God (creator).<<<<

    GRM:You should come to China. Those who worship the creator are a tiny
minority. There are a fair number of buddhists but there are a whole lot of
people who don't worship at all after the cultural revolution.

>>>The only difference between the creator-religions is that with the
exception of Christians, most everyone believes God redeems us directly in
the end (at judgement) and Christians believe that we can be redeemed before
the judgement comes.

    Sorry if some of this is off track. Not trying to start another
thread.<<<<

    GRM:Well, I am a bit confused as to why worshipping a creator god hasn't
been done throughout human history?

>>>>>Also, I realize that some like yourself Glenn would have issue with
the idea that some people are biblically man and others not. This does not
mean that they are less human. Racism, or any ism, is an excuse for not
accepting people who are different. And rather than try to bring those
others into ones culture or religion (not forcing) they will simply
suppress, denounce, and destroy. All of which is against God's will. Even
if everyone truly believed that we were related directly from Adam
1,000,000,000,000,000 years ago or from yesterday, siblings always fight.
If we cannot teach our own children to love each other, then how can we ever
think that hatred for non-family will ever be stopped. So, regardless of
whatever biblical or scientific conclusions are formed and supported, there
will always be those who hate. All we can do is ensure that our own
children love and respect one another so that their love and respect will be
passed on to the next generation and perhaps one day everyone will learn to
accept people who are different physically and culturally but who can share
their love of mankind and God.<<<<

    One of the fascinating things I have observed having a multi-ethnic
family is the way we humans see differences. My half-scot/half Lebanese son
married a Chinese from Singapore. I have pictures of their child, my
grandchild at the office in Beijing. Several of the Chinese in my office
have noted that to them, she looks so European. To me, she looks more
oriental. When I mentioned this to my daughter in law, she said she thought
her daughter looked more European. There is something about how we see other
ethnicities that makes us see them as 'other'. It seems ingrained and not
necessarily a learned behavior to be taught by family. So, when we give
easy steps to racism we are allowing our natural (possibly evolved) family
recognition systems to see more difference than there really is. So, I
simply don't think it is a good idea to play with that fire.
Received on Wed Mar 1 01:05:18 2006