Re: petition to amend ASA Constitutional Objectives?

Certainly Moses knew God's will when he went to Egypt. It would have been hard to miss it. Anybody hear from God lately? Did He speak to any of you guys?

Then Moses acted outside God's will and was denied the promised land. And any of us are free to do that, individually and corporately. As an organization, how can we be sure we are acting within God's will on every issue? Do we vote? Cast lots? Declare Randy a prophet, and let God speak to him?

In short, it's the kind of presumptive, arrogant attitude I would expect from ICR, not from us. (The last time I saw Henry Morris he was autographing Bibles!) Let's be a little humble and seek God's will, reverently asking for guidance and making sure all we do fits within the confines of Scripture - not declare we know God's will and therefore act with infallibility.

Dick Fischer - Genesis Proclaimed Association
Finding Harmony in Bible, Science, and History
www.genesisproclaimed.org

----- Original Message -----

Joe, Dick, and all:

I don't quite understand why we're all so afraid of "knowing God's will" language. Whenever we ask the question "What should I do?" or "What should we as an organization do?", we're asking that question in the form that I think Joe means. Nothing more nothing less. We use our knowledge of scripture, our circumstances, the need around us, our abilities, our desires, etc. to discern what we ought to be about. As we individually and corporately reflect on such things and do it prayerfully, seeking God's guidance, I believe that He guides us. That doesn't mean that we're infallibly perceiving His will or that we have some kind of indisputable Divine Mandate that blasts through all alternate opinion, but it does mean that we can have some humble confidence that we're doing what God wants us to do individually and corporately.

I don't think it hurts to evaluate this from time to time. I'm actually confident that the Executive Council together with Randy, especially in the course of selecting a new Executive Director, went through this process to some degree. If the membership, at Joe's encouragement, pushes for a more radical re-evaluation, so be it.

TG

On Dec 2, 2005, at 9:22 AM, Dick Fischer wrote:

Hi Joe, you wrote:

So it's futile for Christian engineers, scientists, theologians, and
others to collectively and intentionally seek God's will for the
engineering and science professions and their Christian
members? It's established that God is too inscrutable for such an
exercise to be anything but a presumptuous waste of time?

There is certainly some question as to whether the will of God is knowable or not. You could see that from the responses on this list. Your suggested amendment seems to imply that we know it. That's all.

~Dick Fischer~ Genesis Proclaimed Association
Finding Harmony in Bible, Science, and History
www.genesisproclaimed.org

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Carson [mailto:jpcarson@tds.net]
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 2:43 PM
To: Dick Fischer
Subject: RE: petition to amend ASA Constitutional Objectives?

So it's futile for Christian engineers, scientists, theologians, and
others to collectively and intentionally seek God's will for the
engineering and science professions and their Christian
members? It's established that God is too inscrutable for such an
exercise to be anything but a presumptuous waste of time?

Please respond to the points I make, not your recasted ones.

thanks,

Joe

At 01:21 PM 12/1/2005, you wrote:
>Hi Joe, you wrote:
>
>In other words, "ascertain God's will"?
>
>So Churches, Councils, etc are presumptuous? Is ASA presumptuous to
>exist? If you wish to be irrelevant, that is a formula for being so,
>that it would be presumptuous to be otherwise. Is God that
>inscrutable, random, and capricious? Or is that just your presumption?
>
>Testy. Joe, I wish I knew God's will for my life, and for the ASA for
>that matter. It would be real easy if the handwriting was written
>neatly on the wall, in English. It isn't and won't be. But theology
>isn't normally a strong suit for scientists and engineers, and here is a
>good opportunity to weigh input from someone a little theologically
>grounded.
>
>~Dick Fischer~ Genesis Proclaimed Association
>Finding Harmony in Bible, Science, and History
>www.genesisproclaimed.org

________________
Terry M. Gray, Ph.D.
Computer Support Scientist
Chemistry Department
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
(o) 970-491-7003 (f) 970-491-1801
Received on Fri Dec 2 15:55:58 2005