Date: Mon May 09 2005 - 18:00:58 EDT
MessageWhat does one say? Before I read anything by Numbers I researched the origins of YEC and basically came to the same conclusions as Numbers. I don't think one could find much fault with his book.
As for dear Sarfati, would do you expect of someone like him!!! His research is always shoddy as is his attempt to discredit evangelicals who are intelligent enough to reject YEC
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: Hon Wai Lai
To: 'gordon brown'
Cc: asa@calvin.edu
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 9:51 PM
Subject: Dr J Sarfati's book review of Ronald Numbers' "The Creationists"
Gordon,
(Umm, just noticed you share the name with the UK's Chancellor to the Treasury, widely tipped to be the next UK Prime Minister...)
Here is a predictable negative review by J Sarfati. Do you want to comment on his review?
A biased distortion of creationist history, March 31, 2000
Reviewer: Dr. J. Sarfati (Brisbane, Queensland Australia) - See all my reviews
It is simply a fact to point out that Numbers is an 'apostate' -- the word means someone who has fallen away from his professed faith. Numbers made it clear that used the Yellowstone petrified 'forests' as an excuse to abandon creationism and his professed faith in biblical Christianity. His bias should be noted when reading his book.
One irony is that many uniformitarian scientists now believe that the Yellowstone were not a succession of forests which were buried in situ, but were catastrophically uprooted and transported as a floating log mat, and later the logs sank root-end first into the lake bottom. See the Answers in Genesis site.
Numbers' book majors heavily on personalities, with subtle (and some not-so-subtle) character assassinations, while the high scientific qualifications of many creationists are downplayed. He invariably gives the last word to the evolutionist, which often leaves an impression contrary to the facts as can be seen upon checking the original sources. See also review by Prof. Edgar Andrews, _Origins_ (Journal of the Biblical Creation Society) 8(20):21-23, 1995.
Many atheists and their compromising evangelical lackeys have followed Numbers' ploy of attributing biblical creationism and flood geology to 'the visions of an Adventist prophetess [Ellen White]' via George McCready Price. A number of papers by Dr Terry Mortenson in the _Creation Ex Nihilo Technical Journal_ show that the early 19th century Scriptural Geologists presented such ideas well before Price. And the founder of Answers in Genesis (USA), Ken Ham, pointed out that he had never even heard of Price at the time he founded CSF/AiG, and that he adopted creationism because of the biblical teaching.
Even Henry Morris's naive off-the-cuff "endorsement" of this book can't change the incontrovertable FACTS of history: that YEC was the historic view of the Christian Church from LONG before Ellen White -- Basil the Great, Martin Luther and John Calvin all believed in 6 literal days, and even allegorisers like Origen and Augustine furiously denounced pagan ideas that claimed the earth was older than 6-10 thousand year.
Note that even if Numbers were right about Price, he and all those whon gleefully parrot him are wrong to think that discrediting Price is enough to refute creationism -- this is a classic case of the genetic fallacy.
One useful thing in his book is that he exposes the 'strained efforts' of re-interpreting Scripture to fit evolution, and the deceit of some theistic evolutionary college professors '[s]tretching the truth to the breaking point' (p. 182) when trying to hide what they really believed from conservative parents and donors.
-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of gordon brown
Sent: 08 May 2005 00:07
To: Hon Wai Lai
Cc: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: RE: Non-truths that do not transform
The history is meticulously documented in "The Creationists: The Evolution of Scientific Creationism" by Ronald Numbers (published by Knopf).
Gordon Brown
Department of Mathematics
University of Colorado
Boulder, CO 80309-0395
