RE: The puzzle of Adam

Thanks for sharing your views.
Don P
  -----Original Message-----
  From: George Murphy [mailto:gmurphy@raex.com]
  Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 10:47
  To: Don Perrett
  Cc: ASA Discussions
  Subject: Re: The puzzle of Adam

  I would say that accountability comes with awareness of God's will -
indicated in Gen.2 by the prohibition of the tree of knowledge. & before
our ancestors were able to be aware of God's revelation (in whatever form it
came) they weren't human _in a theological sense_.

  & yes, salvation is not return to a pre-fall paradisal state. We are to
move forward - to "grow up into Christ" (Eph.4:15)

  Shalom
  George
  http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Don Perrett
    To: George Murphy
    Cc: ASA Discussions
    Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 5:01 PM
    Subject: RE: The puzzle of Adam

    George wrote:
      I think that R. Niebuhr's distinction is still helpful: Sin was
"inevitable" but not "necessary." I.e., sin is not essential to what it
means to be human. But even in traditional Augustinian theology, the 1st
humans, while originally without sin, had the possibility of sinning - posse
non peccare rather than non posse peccare. From what we know & can surmise
about human evolution, that was probably only a possibility (!) that was
never actualized in any "state of integrity" of significant duration.

      There are 2 components to original sin - the biological and the
cultural. The more early humans yielded to biological inclinations to
violence, deceit, sexual promiscuity
      and defiance of what may have been known of God's will for them, the
stronger became cultural reinforcement for such behavior. This is one
aspect of the fact that humanity is (as Phil Hefner puts it) a "symbiosis"
of biology & culture. (Cf. his book The Human Factor.)

      Shalom
      George
      http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/

    Don P:

    Would this not bring us back to the point of accountability? Early
humans, prior to Adam if one believes in them, would have performed many of
the same acts that we now consider sinful. Along comes Adam and we become
accountable? Query: Is it possible that God did not make us accountable,
but rather man made himself accountable by seeking knowledge of Good and
Evil? Had we not done so, would we have known what sin was? And once we
knew, we were then accountable and must continue to be so, until redeemed,
through perfect obedience (ot) or salvation (nt)? The reason I ask is that
some believe that we must return to what we were supposed to have been
before the fall. If however what I submit above is true then we cannot go
back to what we were supposed to have been, but must go forward into a
deeper religious evolution. If so, then it would beg the question of
whether salvation is the next stage of this evolution or the end result.

    I would appreciate your opinions.

    Don P
Received on Mon Nov 29 13:11:04 2004