Re: Election

Numbers, including myself, are concerned at the US (and European ) support
of Israel, with its abominable treatment of Arabs since 1947. I cannot see
how they have got away with it as they are worse than S Africa under
Apartheid. That I say from personal knowledge having lived illegally in a
Coloured Reserve in S Africa for a year and then visiting Israel en route
home. However a colleague down the road whose wife is a Jewess would not
agree with me.

In Britain there is prejudice against Americans and frequently I have to
correct fellow Christians in my diocese in their caricature of American
Evangelicals as if they all went to BJU (which has produced some fine
people). Recently the main Anglican paper referred dismissively to Wheaton
as it were an extreme right wing fundamentalist college. Many cannot believe
the extremely high standard of some evangelical colleges. Granted some are
appalling but then some so-called British universities are simply a joke.
A major problem in the UK is that many assume that US evangelicals are rabid
fundamentalists of the worst kind.
I would agree that there is more polarisation between believer and
unbeliever in the USA, although that is not absent here.
Perhaps I shouldn't have responded but there are many misunderstandings
which are based on ignorance. I am sure those Brits who go to the Sunshine
state learn nothing about the real America as do Americans who do a whistle
stop tour of Britain. Some friends from SC enjoy staying with us because
they will see things most Americans know nothing about, we enjoy it the
other way around.

Michael

P.S. Bush had to respond impassively when told about 9/11, but for that he
could not win. It would be alike a minister always bursting into tears
during a funeral
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Davis" <TDavis@messiah.edu>
To: <drsyme@cablespeed.com>; <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: Election

> I have no doubt about the importance of people like me (a "white
evangelical
> Christian") in the election yesterday. I was also interested in the
> comments of a black official (I don't recall his name), speaking on one of
> the TV networks about the Florida results. He noted that there, the
> decisive factor was probably the Jewish vote. Apparently far more Jews
> voted for Bush than people had expected, given the fact that a very large
> majority of Jewish voters are Democrats. Bush's very clear support for
> Israel was said to be the reason. I believe this analysis; I've been
> wondering for months whether that might happen.
>
> Another commentator (I can't recall which one) pointed out that Bush is
> highly unpopular in Europe, partly b/c he is so openly religious. I also
> believe this analysis. Furthermore, I suspect that many European
> governments have opposed Bush's policy in the Middle East, in good part
b/c
> of the Jewish issue. Let me be more specific. In many European nations,
> there are significant numbers of recent immigrants from Islamic countries.
> In the UK, I'm told, there might be more Muslims today than there are
> *active* Christians, and surely there are far more Muslims in the UK than
> there are Jews. I do not know the real numbers for any nation, but I'd be
> surprised if there are more Jews than Muslims in *any* of the larger
> European nations at this point. Lots of European Jews who survived the
> holocaust didn't want to stay in Europe, while lots of Muslims (some from
> former colonies like Algeria or Morroco) have moved into Europe in the
past
> 40 years. This *has to* have a noticable effect on politics there.
>
> On the other hand, something like half of all Arabic Americans are
> Christians, not Muslims. (Many of those folks fled religious persecution
in
> places like Syria, Iraq, or Egypt.) Again I don't know the precise
numbers,
> but I'd be surprised if there are more Muslims than Jews in the US. More
> importantly, American Jews have a great deal of political influence,
> relative to American Muslims; Jews have been an important part of our
> democracy for over a hundred years, but esp important since WW2. Although
> Joe Lieberman is (I think) the first Jewish candidate for Pres or VP for a
> major party, there have obviously been many Jewish Senators and governors;
> we re-elected a Jewish senator to his fifth term in my home state
yesterday
> (Arlen Spector). American Muslims have a long way to go to yet.
>
> A few weeks ago, the very liberal political magazine, the Nation, ran a
> cover story about evangelicals and the secular political left in America.
> It was right on target, IMO. Partly we are a divided nation b/c of the
real
> contempt (not just disinterest) that many left-leaning thinkers have for
> those of us who take religion seriously, esp those of us who sometimes
vote
> in certain ways partly b/c of our religious beliefs. To be sure, there
are
> plenty of poltical conservatives who aren't religious, even some who are
> outright atheists (the strongest defender of Richard Nixon I have ever
> spoken to, was an atheistic Jew who taught history of science at an Ivy
> League school for several decades). But they usually aren't seen
(rightly,
> I think) as the "brain trust" of the political right. The major secular
> universities are not exactly known as hotbeds of religion, nor are they
> known for encouraging conservative political viewpoints. And a large
> majority of those universities are located in the "blue" states, incl the
> ones in the upper midwest as well as those on the coasts.
>
> In closing, let me clarify the intent of my comments here. I don't like
to
> get into politics in an openly partisan way, I vote and don't usually talk
> about how I voted. My intention here is to comment on the election with
> regard to the role that religion apparently played, to be objective rather
> than partisan. I think that many commentators on both sides of the aisle
> would agree with my comments. I am not trying to start a thread about
which
> candidate Christians should have voted for, and for what reasons. I am
> simply pointing to what look like the facts and inviting the analyses of
> others.
>
> I also hope that the few Europeans on this list will comment on my
> comments. Do you think I'm on target, or not, relative to the differences
> between Europe and the USA that I have identified?
>
> ted
>
>
>
Received on Wed Nov 3 17:45:19 2004