From: Jack Haas (haas.john@comcast.net)
Date: Sat Oct 25 2003 - 08:17:53 EDT
Michael,
Your debating experience with the Aussie creationist John Mackay is similar
to that found earlier in
http://home.austarnet.com.au/stear/debate_with_john_mackay.htm
To think that all these years my oxbridge friends assured me that this kind
of thing was found only in the colonies. The times are changing.
Cheers,
Jack Haas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Roberts" <michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk>
To: <asa@calvin.edu>; "Terry M. Gray" <grayt@lamar.colostate.edu>
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: Wells and Molecular Phylogenies
> This is the whole point. IDers say that if something can't be explained
then
> the Intelligent Designer did it. The problem is that when the something is
> expalined the gap is closed and God - sorry the Intelligent Designer - is
> squeezed out.
> In a review of Behe for Science and Christian Beleif I described Behe's
view
> as God of the Gaps wrapped up in amino acids. It was a bit cruel but apt.
>
> I have had a grim evening as I debated John Mackay in a local village
hall.
> Boy does he distrot things. He gave a serious distortion of radiometric
> age-dating and I was asked to comment . He had come out with so much
falsity
> so that I all could do was to quote the 9th commandment. That did not go
> down well One asked what God would say to me on the day of Judgement so I
> replied that we would compare notes and agree with each other! There was
> uproar and cries of heretic.
> Seriously is it worth debating with such guys, who only want to
misrepresent
> and cast slurs.
> Oh he even used Glenn Morton to contradict me and admitted privately he
was
> unfair
> Still someone's got to do it.
>
>
> Michael
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Terry M. Gray" <grayt@lamar.colostate.edu>
> To: <asa@calvin.edu>
> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 6:21 PM
> Subject: Re: Wells and Molecular Phylogenies
>
>
> > Josh,
> >
> > Thanks for the tip. I've argued all along that this would be case
> > once more complete data is out. This is the key trouble with the
> > Wells, Behe, Nelson, and the DI folks in general. They take a very
> > pessimistic look at the data and look at weaknesses based in lack of
> > information. This is because the optimistic look at the data goes
> > contrary to their strong anti-evolutionary biases. Strickly speaking
> > and at the moment and in the particular case, they may be correct.
> > But the trend is and always has been there with the molecular data,
> > the more we know the more evolutionary explanations make sense.
> >
> > TG
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >I think Wells' critique of molecular phylogenies will be much harder
> > >to sustain after papers like this (Nature 425, 798 - 804 (23 October
> > >2003):
> > >
> > >Genome-scale approaches to resolving incongruence in molecular
> phylogenies
> > >
> > >ANTONIS ROKAS*, BARRY L. WILLIAMS*, NICOLE KING & SEAN B. CARROLL
> > >
> > >Howard Hughes Medical Institute, Laboratory of Molecular Biology, R.
> > >M. Bock Laboratories, University of Wisconsin-Madison, 1525 Linden
> > >Drive, Madison, Wisconsin 53706, USA
> > >* These authors contributed equally to this work
> > >
> > >Correspondence and requests for materials should be addressed to
> > >S.B.C. (sbcarrol@wisc.edu).
> > >
> > >One of the most pervasive challenges in molecular phylogenetics is
> > >the incongruence between phylogenies obtained using different data
> > >sets, such as individual genes. To systematically investigate the
> > >degree of incongruence, and potential methods for resolving it, we
> > >screened the genome sequences of eight yeast species and selected
> > >106 widely distributed orthologous genes for phylogenetic analyses,
> > >singly and by concatenation. Our results suggest that data sets
> > >consisting of single or a small number of concatenated genes have a
> > >significant probability of supporting conflicting topologies. By
> > >contrast, analyses of the entire data set of concatenated genes
> > >yielded a single, fully resolved species tree with maximum support.
> > >Comparable results were obtained with a concatenation of a minimum
> > >of 20 genes; substantially more genes than commonly used but a small
> > >fraction of any genome. These results have important implications
> > >for resolving branches of the tree of life.
> > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > >See when your friends are online with MSN Messenger 6.0. Download it
> > >now FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com
> >
> >
> > --
> > _________________
> > Terry M. Gray, Ph.D., Computer Support Scientist
> > Chemistry Department, Colorado State University
> > Fort Collins, Colorado 80523
> > grayt@lamar.colostate.edu http://www.chm.colostate.edu/~grayt/
> > phone: 970-491-7003 fax: 970-491-1801
> >
> >
>
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