Re: Phillip Johnson

From: John W Burgeson (jwburgeson@juno.com)
Date: Sat Oct 18 2003 - 10:33:14 EDT

  • Next message: Walter Hicks: "Re: Phillip Johnson"

    Wally posted:

    >>Help me out, Burgy or Ted. There is a clear cut difference between the
    two
    concepts but I fail to see where it makes any practical difference in the
    outcome. Either way one arrives at a conclusion which precludes direct
    interaction by God....Whether MN ot PN, will the results not be the same
    ...?

    Can you illustrate a difference in any scientific theory given the two
    views?>>

    David Campbell's response is better than anything I could dream up.
    Thanks, David. Ted Davis's response sort of seals it.

    This is pretty old stuff, BTW, to those (such as me) who got their BS
    education at Carnegie Tech. Way long ago! <G> As I remember, it was
    covered in the freshman year. No, the specific words, MN and PN were not
    used; I think they were yet to be invented. But the concepts were known.
    Epicurus (~200 BC) spoke of MN; Lucretius (~50 BC) spoke of PN. My web
    site, page 6, has the Epicurus data.

    In another post, Wally said: "In a discussion of chance in evolution
    talkorigins says:

    "..."

    Somebody like Johnson (or somebody like me) would not look upon this as
    religiously neutral. What is your view?"

    I would observe that it is philosophical talk, not scientific talk,
    and,as such, is not neutral. It is a classic example of a GeDanken (sp?)
    experiment. There is no way to test it. It may, or may not, make sense
    and fit with a person's worldview.

    On a smaller scale, the most simple minded Cubs fan instinctively
    understands that if the young man in the stands a few days ago had
    ducked, then Alou "probably" would have caught the ball and the Cubs
    "probably" would be in the Series opener tonight. Contingency is a vital
    part of our world. That does not in any way make the young man
    responsible, of course, for the present situation, for any number of
    other events COULD have happened differently along the way to the
    Marlins' victory.

    On July 1st, 1951, having promised my younger brother I would take him to
    an Indians game, I backed out. Feller pitched his 3rd no-hitter at that
    game; brother Paul, 51 years later, still reminds me of that every July
    1st. I argue with him that, had we gone, our presence in the stands would
    have affected the game and Feller "probably" would not have pitched his
    gem because we were there.

    My brother is unimpressed with this argument. Maybe I am too.

    Burgy

    www.burgy.50megs.com

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