From: Alexanian, Moorad (alexanian@uncw.edu)
Date: Thu Oct 16 2003 - 12:12:31 EDT
I am not sure if life can be defined in terms of purely physical terms.
Therefore, humans as well as animals are in some sense outside the realm
of theories that are based solely of matter/energy. I do not think that
the notion of being a sinner can ever be applied to animals. Therefore,
conscious beings that reason have to have this added feature of being
aware of their sin nature via some sort of morality that does not exist
in other living beings. In Christian theology we humans are
spirit/mind/body. I think animals are mind/body and so have no way of
"detecting" God.
Moorad
-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
Behalf Of SHEILA WILSON
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 9:31 AM
To: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: RE: Phillip Johnson (and Methodological Naturalism)
This is a great question but it is a two-edged sword that clearly
reveals the more challenging side. If intelligence, consciousness, and
rationality in humans cannot be measured or derived from scientific
theories, how do we know that animals and plants do not also have these
traits? If they have these traits, then are they sentient or
self-aware? If self-aware, then why do we consider ourselves better
than them?
Remember, I am Christian. I have accepted Jesus Christ as my Savior. I
know that mankind was created different than animals. I am not a
humanist. This train of thought, however, is a slipperly slope that has
led many to destruction. More questions:
Do animals have a moral system dictating right from wrong? Are animals
intelligent and self-aware? Many say yes to both of these. How then
are we different? Do we have a soul and animals do not? What is a
soul? How does God define our souls? How are we different?
Howard says that glaciers and moraines are not intelligently made. Why
not? God is the author and finisher of our faith. God is the Creator
of all things - why not glaciers and moraines? Are only living things
intelligently made? What about our planet or our universe? God is the
God of the infinite and the finite, the great and the small. If He
knows how many hairs are on my head and I was wonderfully and fearfully
made, why not moraines? Even the rocks will cry out the glory of God!
Sheila
"Alexanian, Moorad" <alexanian@uncw.edu> wrote:
Perhaps someone can answer a simple question. Intelligence in
humans,
based on consciousness and rationality, is not part of the
physical
universe and cannot be derived from scientific theories.
Therefore, if
such is needed in order to do unadulterated science, then whence
does
that intelligence come from? Isn't this the reason for supposing
the
existence of a being which is infinitely, compared to humans,
more
conscious and rational? Isn't that what ID is all about?
Moorad
-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu
[mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
Behalf Of Howard J. Van Till
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 8:12 AM
To: Michael Roberts; asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: Phillip Johnson (and Methodological Naturalism)
>From: "Michael Roberts"
> If the Ice ! Age was the result of the Flood then Glaciers and
Moraines
can be
> seen to be intelligently designed
Michael,
Well, not exactly. Here's the problem. The pattern set by ID
advocates
seems
to be that inanimate objects like stars and planets (which, I
presume,
include glaciers and moraines) are labeled "intelligently
designed" when
they are formed as a consequence of a robust (& fine-tuned)
system of
natural formational capabilities. Biotic things, on the other
hand, are
labeled "intelligently designed" when the system of natural
capabilities
is
inadequate to do the job and needs to be supplemented by
occasional
episodes
of non-natural form-imposing intervention by an unidentified,
unembodied,
choice-making agent who need not be God.
So, sorry, but your glaciers and moraines can't be intelligently
designed :)
Howard Van Till
Sheila McGinty Wilson
sheila-wilson@sbcglobal.net
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