RE: RATE

From: Glenn Morton (glennmorton@entouch.net)
Date: Thu Oct 09 2003 - 19:37:41 EDT

  • Next message: Jay Willingham: "Re: Pangea and concordism (was RATE)"

    >-----Original Message-----
    >From: Josh Bembenek [mailto:jbembe@hotmail.com]
    >Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 10:27 AM
    >To: glennmorton@entouch.net; Fivefree@aol.com; asa@calvin.edu
    >Subject: RE: RATE
    >http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/faq/dont_use.asp
    >
    >Canopy theory is placed under the strongly discouraged but not completely
    >disproven category. Others are listed as completely refuted.
    >
    >This is a significant step in the right direction, lets try to acknowledge
    >that!

    Why should I acknowledge them for the work I did? It seems to me that if
    they were honest with the data they wouldn't say very much on their web
    site.

    Take this site:
    http://answersingenesis.org/docs/4005.asp

    They have several 'young-earth' arguments which are just pure cr.p.

    1. Galaxies wind themselves up too fast

    The galactic arms are not ridgid things which 'wind' up around a spinning
    galaxy. I have run galactic simulations and find that even after one
    'winds' up the initial arms, other arms appear.

    2. Comets disintegrate too quickly

    Six brand new comets enter our solar system every year. There are plenty of
    comets to replenish those that decay.

    "Five or six comets are picked up each year in the average, and two thirds
    of them have not been previously recorded" Robert H. Baker and Laurence W.
    Frederick, An Introduction to Astronomy, (Princeton: D. Van Nostrand Co.,
    Inc., 1968), p. 159

    Note how long this has been known, but do the AIG folk tell their readers
    this? Of course not. Why, Josh?

    3. Not enough mud on the sea floor

    They can look at http://home.entouch.net/dmd/erosion.htm, but of course,
    they don't want to find out that they are wrong.

    4. Not enough sodium in the sea

    There is a KNOWN(to scientists but unknown to AIG) limit to how salty the
    oceans can become. There is a limited sodium supply in the earths crust.

    “The data presented above support the contention that the concentration of
    many of the major constituents of seawater could have varied only modestly
    during the Phanerozoic Eon. This conservatism extends to the concentration
    of Na+ and Cl- as well. Zharkov (1981) has compiled the available data for
    the quantity of sulfate and halite rocks in Paleozoic strata, and has
    proposed that the volume of 'salt rocks' in Paleozoic evaporite basins is
    2.944 X 106 km3. If all of these rocks consist of pure halite, Paleozoic
    evaporite basins contain 6.4 x 1021 gm NaCl. This corresponds to
    approximately 15% of the NaCl content of the present-day oceans. Holser
    (personal communications, 1981) has estimated that the entire inventory of
    halite in sedimentary rocks of all ages amounts to ca. 30% of the NaCl
    content of the oceans. There is no disagreement between the two estimates."
    ~ Heinrich D. Holland, The Chemical Evolution of the Atmosphere and Oceans,
    (Princeton Univ. Press, 1984, p. 461

    Given this, it means that if one dissolves all the earth's salt into the
    oceans we would have a 4.5% salinity rather than the current 3.5% salinity.
    Thus, the argument salt argument is undermined in that

    1) the oceans would never be too salty for life.
    2) only a relatively small percentage of the earth's salt is found outside
    of the oceans. Clearly this could have been removed by evaporation of
    restricted basins as geologists suggest. Such basins would have been the
    Mediterranean in the Miocene, the Gulf of Mexico in the Jurassic, the North
    Sea in the Triassic (the Zechstein formation),
    etc.

    5. The Earth’s magnetic field is decaying too fast

    This is really laughable because AIG also has used Humphreys theory of the
    magnetic field elsewhere. And Humphreys thinks the magnetic field has
    reversed 'scores' of times over the 6000 years of earth history. Thus How on
    earth can they seriously claim that the earth's magnetic field is decaying
    too fast. Humphreys has it decaying much faster than secular science. Here
    is what Humphreys says:

            "Old-earth proponents, however, correctly point out that the earth's
    magnetic field has not always decayed smoothly. Archaeomagnetic (magnetism
    of pottery, bricks, etc.) data indicate that the present steady decay
    started around 500 A. D. For several millennia before that, the overall
    strength of the field had fluctuated up and down significantly.
    Paleomagnetic (magnetism of geologic strata) data provide persuasive
    evidence that the field reversed its direction scores of times while the
    fossil layers were being laid down." ~ Russell Humphreys, "The Mystery of
    the Earth's Magnetic Field," Impact, February 1989, p. ii

    6. Many strata are too tightly bent

    show they don't know beans about rheology--it is a hard science, you know.

    7. Injected sandstone shortens geologic ‘ages’

    Laughable. I have spent the past 3 years studying and working with oil
    fields that had injected sands. Injected sands are evidence of an old
    earth. They occur when water gets trapped in a sandstone and can't get out.
    The water becomes overpressured for its depth. The sand is undercompacted
    for its depth. Then an earthquake happens and the shaking of the earth forms
    fissures through which injected sands squirt. We see this in most
    earthquakes today. But do AIG tell their readers this? Of course not.

    8.. Fossil radioactivity shortens geologic ‘ages’ to a few years

    This is a rehash of Gentry's radiohalo business that has been so thoroughly
    refuted that it is amazing this isn't on their list of arguments not to use.

    9.Helium in the wrong places

    This is the helium escape issue. They miss the fact that the atmosphere has
    electrical discharges which heat the outer atmosphere up to high enough
    temperatures so that helium will escape at measurable rates.

    10. Not enough stone age skeletons

    Any anthropologist can tell you that acidic soils will eat a skeleton in
    about a year. Preservation of skeletal material is the exception not the
    rule. But over geologic ages, lots of those exceptions make the fossil
    record.

    11. Agriculture is too recent

    And exactly when was it supposed to have been invented?

    12. History is too short

    Once again, it presumes that mankind would not have a preliterate period.
    Why should writing have been invented earlier? I can think of no reason.

    so, Josh, defend them, but they put out trash, garbage, and misleading junk.
    And they refuse to tell their readers of counterfactual evidence. Why?



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